Halloween campaign is nothing but arrow paths

Calicara · 2015-10-21 17:12:51

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

If people like Kira says i am promoting me and Ipwners levels then he is twisting my words and trying to make me sound like some some sort of self-praising machiavellist by bringing up topics that are entirely out of the picture.

But that's exactly what you are, and what you two are always doing, and that's exactly what bugs me. You and iPwner act like you're the greatest thing to EE since portals, and the two you of talk each each other up as if you're so great, and then destroy anything which doesn't fit in your pre-made notions of 'creative'.

I mean MIHB has already said:

MIHB_casts_confuseplayer wrote wrote:

I think you overestimate how many levels are out there along those lines that actually fit into a campaign structure. For example, lots of "unique, innovative" levels require some degree of player interaction (like stairs, co-op maps, competitive maps), which makes them unsuitable for campaigns. Or they require some sort of owner activity, like levels that need an owner to run a keypresser, bots, or active building. Or they don't have any true "victory" conditions, like levels that are about trying to beat one's own personal best: speedruns, minimum deaths, don't hit coins, things like that. Or they have such unique gameplay that there aren't any other maps they make sense to put together in a campaign.

Though I'm sure you mentally filtered it out, because you were too busy trying to shovel up evidence to support a hypothesis which isn't even correct.

I'm not saying all the campaigns are good, but considering how they are NEW, and the amount of RESTRICTIONS that are put on which levels can be selected, it's hard to get upset if you see more of the same thing. If you want to make a real suggestion then post your ideas in the campaign suggestion forum. Otherwise if you don't like it, don't play it.

blizzard, bgic

MIHB_casts_confuseplayer · 2015-10-21 18:50:23

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

If people like Kira says i am promoting me and Ipwners levels then he is twisting my words and trying to make me sound like some some sort of self-praising machiavellist by bringing up topics that are entirely out of the picture.

Between that eedictionary of yours, and your general attitude this entire conversation, its very easy to get the idea that your interest in alternate campaigns is less about getting variety into the campaigns and more about railing against some perceived orthodoxy to which you take personal offense. This conversation, in general, hasn't been about acknowledging reality than about trying to encourage some preferred opinion. As an example,

Just because 90 percent of levels are arrow paths does NOT mean that 100 percent of the campaign should be arrow paths. Leave a ten percent for the non-arrow path levels, yeah?

Spoken by minimania and wooted by nlmdejonge. However, as of right now, if you ignore the tutorial campaign, and consider "water levels" to be an arrow path level, the current percentage of non-arrow path levels in the campaigns is a little over 10% due to the puzzle pack. Things are gradually changing, but for a long period of time, arrow path levels made up about 90% or even 95% of all levels that were made (excluding bosses, stairs, and run-from-god type levels).

The bigger issue with the campaigns has been the overall difficulty level (way too high), not the lack of 'unique' levels. If you think that having more unique levels would solve that problem, thats one thing (and I might agree with that), but thats different from being irritated about the lack of unique levels for their own sake.

nlmdejonge · 2015-10-21 18:54:17

I think everyone has said what they wanted to say, the posts are starting to get a bit repetitive.

I'm not sure why Kira and Calicara started singling out Ipwner and Norwegianboy, but...
They are not alone. I started this thread, and it's not just us three either. Look, for example, at the woots throughout the first page of this thread.

Anyway, time to move on. People know each other's opinions and we don't need to agree on everything.

Calicara · 2015-10-21 22:13:22

I think this is a discourse, and as part of the conversation I am allowed to refer to anyone else participating in the discourse. Admittedly my first post was uneducated and rude. Now I single out Norwegianboy and iPwner because they have a history of complaining about certain aspects of the game, but when proposed to make a solution they use themselves as prime examples of originality and goodness. Which, while they may have some good content, it does not make them the epitome of quality gameplay.

It order to propose a proper solution one can use oneself as an example, but they should also use other people too (and not exclusively to their friend groups.) If Norwegianboy, or any person in particular has an issue with the lack of 'unique' campaigns, then instead of whining about what the campaigns lack, rather give examples of what could make them better. I have not yet seen anyone give a suggestion as to what types of levels could make campaigns better in this thread. Just a bunch of people whining about what makes them bad. That is my issue with 90% of complaint topics in EE. Users can pinpoint a problem, but don't give a solution to fix it.

P.S. This is not me claiming to know how to make campaigns better. I actually don't mind that they're arrow paths, because it's helped me to get better at minis. But at the same time I can certainly understand why people would want a variety of gameplay, because it's not fair to assume all players can/are able to complete difficult/longer maps.

Swarth100, Nou, Master1

Slingshot · 2015-10-22 00:41:17

Xfrogman43 wrote:

http://i.imgur.com/5FzSa0a.png
Found the solution

Ah, I see! Thanks

Xfrogman43

nlmdejonge · 2015-10-22 07:30:05

I see we're going to continue this thread some more.

Calicara wrote:

I am allowed to refer to anyone else participating in the discourse.

If I gave you the impression that I'm of the opinion that you're forbidden to refer to certain people then I apologize.

Calicara wrote:

[T]hey use themselves as prime examples of originality and goodness.

Some of their levels are good examples of what's possible without using arrow paths.
They've been creative and innovative. They have created unique and clever levels that are not just a collection of 10-15 arrow paths.

Calicara wrote:

[...], but they should also use other people [as examples] too

They don't have to. They did though; maybe not in this thread. But let's leave it up to them to decide which examples they use.

There simply wasn't enough mini diversity in the recent Halloween campaign.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that the minis in those levels look and feel alike.
Even if you play just the winning levels of the 2011 Halloween contest you'll find more variation.

Norwee, Minimania, iPwner

MIHB_casts_confuseplayer · 2015-10-22 16:54:16

nlmdejonge wrote:

Some of their levels are good examples of what's possible without using arrow paths.
They've been creative and innovative. They have created unique and clever levels that are not just a collection of 10-15 arrow paths.

Which would have been fine if they didn't take potshots at other level creators.

This isn't a subject that should be provoking controversy. The only reason this is controversial is because its being posed as an issue of 'us vs them'.

Slingshot · 2015-10-23 02:22:21

MIHB_casts_confuseplayer wrote:

nlmdejonge wrote:
Some of their levels are good examples of what's possible without using arrow paths.
They've been creative and innovative. They have created unique and clever levels that are not just a collection of 10-15 arrow paths.
Which would have been fine if they didn't take potshots at other level creators.
This isn't a subject that should be provoking controversy. The only reason this is controversial is because its being posed as an issue of 'us vs them'.

And its fake difficulty involving arrows.

Xfrogman43 · 2015-10-24 22:30:40

You obviously haven't played Fractured Fingers campaign.

Master1 · 2015-10-25 00:12:49

nlmdejonge wrote:

There simply wasn't enough mini diversity in the recent Halloween campaign.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that the minis in those levels look and feel alike.
Even if you play just the winning levels of the 2011 Halloween contest you'll find more variation.

All of the minis in that campaign look and feel alike??? What???
- The first map TP's the Horror, tends to use very basic minigames that are like one simple jump or something. It even threw in a nice trick room towards the ending.
- The second map, Trick or Treat, is a level based off of illusion minigames where each room is essentially a puzzle. Not sure how that's like any of the others at all.
- The third map, Hakahouseoffun, uses the somewhat new and now more traditional style of minis, where everything is incredibly smooth flowing. That map also had it's own extra unique mini towards the end, using portals in a way that even after 4 years, I've never seen in another level.
- The fourth map, MMBA Skull Citadel, starts out similar to hakahouse house, and then transitions into something totally different. This transition may be due to physics tweaks over the years though.

You shouldn't have to be a rocket scientist to see that the minis in those levels are entirely different...?
-
I would also like to point out that the majority of the Halloween map winners look horrendous in game. This is mainly due to how decorations used to appear on the minimap and people spammed them everywhere. Finding unique, good Halloween maps, that were not full of decoration spam was not an easy task.

Also at the same time, I was trying my best to avoid using maps created by the staff. I feel like we already have way too many staff created maps in campaigns, and I didn't want to continue adding to that. imo, adding our own levels to campaigns looks horrible. That reason alone was responsible for the exclusion of 5 or so possible worlds.

koozing, Krosis, Minimania, Koya, Sensei1, Codfoshie, Xfrogman43, mrjawapa

Codfoshie · 2015-10-25 12:22:22

Just to clarify, The minis in Skull Citadel were mostly mine, and was all done in less than a day.

What would you expect? Sheer perfection and fun in a kind of rushed map?

I agree that most of the minis in the skull are not to a good standard, however they aren't too hard either.

I still don't know what you guys mean by arrow paths...

As a few people have already stated, you don't NEED to beat this campaign, after all the reward is just a smiley. We have so many of them already, surely missing one isn't that big of a deal. You've probably missed the Grinch, Fanboy1, Fanboy2(?), Bunny, Bird, Pumpkin, Lit Pumpkin. All of which are now unavailable.

The campaigns are meant to be an optional extra, to give the player something to do when they are bored, it is not the entire game.

Be thankful for the EE Dev team for the campaigns they released, as they did put the effort into making all the campaigns.

Master1

nlmdejonge · 2015-10-25 21:34:32

Master1 wrote:

nlmdejonge wrote:
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that the minis in those levels look and feel alike.
All of the minis in that campaign look and feel alike??? What???

I meant the last two levels in the campaign, #3 and #4.
Those that I wrote about in my first post.
I'm sorry, I wasn't clear enough in the post you quoted.

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#51 2015-10-21 17:12:51, last edited by Calicara (2015-10-21 17:15:15)

Re: Halloween campaign is nothing but arrow paths

#52 2015-10-21 18:50:23

Re: Halloween campaign is nothing but arrow paths

#53 2015-10-21 18:54:17

Re: Halloween campaign is nothing but arrow paths

#54 2015-10-21 22:13:22

Re: Halloween campaign is nothing but arrow paths

#55 2015-10-22 00:41:17, last edited by Slingshot (2015-10-22 03:24:59)

Re: Halloween campaign is nothing but arrow paths

#56 2015-10-22 07:30:05

Re: Halloween campaign is nothing but arrow paths

#57 2015-10-22 16:54:16, last edited by MIHB_casts_confuseplayer (2015-10-22 19:44:03)

Re: Halloween campaign is nothing but arrow paths

#58 2015-10-23 02:22:21, last edited by Slingshot (2015-10-23 02:28:16)

Re: Halloween campaign is nothing but arrow paths

#59 2015-10-24 22:30:40

Re: Halloween campaign is nothing but arrow paths

#60 2015-10-25 00:12:49

Re: Halloween campaign is nothing but arrow paths

#61 2015-10-25 12:22:22

Re: Halloween campaign is nothing but arrow paths

#62 2015-10-25 21:34:32

Re: Halloween campaign is nothing but arrow paths

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