Official Everybody Edits Forums

Michele

Formerly AntonioS300

From: EE world

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 1,351

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

zoey2070

Congrats for calling her name.

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Different55

Forum Admin

Joined: 2015-02-07

Posts: 16,575

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

Right, because something that is wrong needs to be wrote out saying it's wrong... or people think it's okay.

Yes it does. Because so long as it's not an official rule, while the moderators can ban people for impersonating them, the banned user(s) can justifiably complain for a ban which was not subjected under the official rules. It's seems simple, but it's the little loopholes that are the reasons criminals walk free. EE might just be a small online game, but I see no reason the moderation should be taken any less seriously.

There's not one person who does this who will get away with it because they whined "BUT IT'S NOT AGAINST THE RULES." If anyone complains about an unfair ban for this, the ee staff can and should laugh in their faces for thinking that would work. They can't justifiably complain. They knew what they are doing was wrong.

That's not too say it shouldn't be in the rules, it's just that not every little thing needs to be put in the rules for people to know what's right and wrong.

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"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

nlmdejonge

Member

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 1,264

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

This is the/a problem.

I don't think zoey start this, she was just trying to test the mature of the people by lying shes a EE admin and ''want'' their informations, it was just a test, her intentions wasn't get the accounts

I meant what the specific post I linked to says:

I'm guessing they trusted you because players usually don't get private messages and the private messages kinda look like system messages.
You know, with the star (*) and all...

Players don't know about private messages, and private messages look like their senders have special powers.

Maybe when a player writes a line of text that contains their password, the game should not send the line and instead warn the player.
Although maybe this is very difficult or impossible technically, depending on how passwords are being saved and can be accessed.

Maybe, in the chat log, private message should be preceded by a text that says "You've received a private message, see below. Everybody Edits staff will NEVER ask for your password." Like, the first time someone receives a private message that day.

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I have permanently left the game and forum.
EE is an entertaining game and I enjoyed playing it...
...but it's time for me to move on.

Era

Member

From: ::1

Joined: 2015-05-06

Posts: 884

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

Players don't know about private messages, and private messages look like their senders have special powers.

its not like these ppl responed via /pm or anything

mrjawapa

Corn Man 🌽

From: Ohio, USA

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 5,840

Website

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

Censoring passwords would almost be obnoxious.  Censors are done in the swf, so it would easily be edited out.  Unless we could some how do it in the server code.  Then we have this issue: say my password is "cookie."  Every time I talk about cookies I'm going to be censored.  Then I feel like if we are transmitting your password back and forth to see if it needs censored... it can be intercepted.  So we made an issue even worse.

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Discord: jawp#5123

Kirby

Member

Joined: 2015-04-04

Posts: 4,305

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

maybe censor if the word password and their actual password are in the same sentence?

Xfrogman43

Member

From: need to find a new home

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 4,174

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

maybe if the word password and their actual password are in the same sentence?

My password is: {enter}
cookies{enter}

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thanks zoey aaaaaaaaaaaand thanks latif for the avatar

Kirby

Member

Joined: 2015-04-04

Posts: 4,305

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

maybe if the word password and their actual password are in the same sentence?

My password is: {enter}
cookies{enter}

If they see the warning that says "ay no password giving"

and give their password

thats their own fault

eeisold

Member

Joined: 2015-06-14

Posts: 202

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

Keep in mind that you have to be pretty stupid to give out your password.
But, this is EE after all. This game hasn't exactly evolved into the most mentally stimulating flash game around. (take the opposite)
"Sun rising in the east" ha, good one.(it does)

"keep a list of phishers" -- very idiotic. You can keep a list of trolls, you can throw all the 'proof' you want. It's not going to be safe from photoshop. Simple as that. Same goes for phishing.

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The report policy should be canned immediately. I'm surprised you tech-savvy folks would even consider it for a second. If the list of phishers was idiotic, this is just pitiful. It breaks down on many levels.
1. Photoshop. Folks have no trouble shopping images on EE. Heck, they're only 2D images pasted on top of each other. Minimal effort and you've caught a troll at work. BUT WAIT. The situation is incredibly different! No one would ever photoshop a chat log! Especially since there's (idk) two fonts! On a black background! How perfectly secure!

2. Policy. You make it your POLICY to IP-ban (didn't atilla or some computer-literate give a winded explanation as to why IP-bans are ineffective?) and ban the accounts? Again, idiotic, pitiful, throw on another diminutive insult. You're giving  every immature EE user (keeping in mind there helluva lot) that has a vendetta the ability to ban whomever they want. Oh, I don't like Zoeyfun2020 so I'll just go ahead and photoshop. A quick /reportabuse and ban.

2a. This brings up a sub-point that I won't talk on too long. Using my example as example, you guardians are also (more than likely) going to base your judgments on whether or not you know the person. IF they're your friend, you'll probably ignore the reportabuse with "oh, they wouldn't do that". Sure, what's wrong with realizing the innocent are just? Nothing. But it sure sucks for the 90% of those not fortunate to kiss your *.

I guess I expected to have more levels. But these are complete enough. I especially love the unprofessional blog post. The excessive use of bold, capital letters, and fragments really brings out the immaturity in our administration system.

I'm not arguing against having a system to block phishing. However, your plan right now is defunct and quite ridiculous.

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Making it against the rules to impersonate guardians/admins? I suppose that's necessary now. It probably wasn't in the original rules (those that the new were probably copied from) because people understood that orange and purple meant something. Again, either EE is losing intelligence or guardians are just too complicated!

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Those who can't do, teach.
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.
I think fish is nice, but then I think that rain is wet, so who am I to judge?
For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen.

skullz17

Member

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 6,699

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

Wait, why do we have to link the log? I thought they could already see the log when you report. Or can they not see PMs?

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thx for sig bobithan

Nou

Member

Joined: 2015-02-24

Posts: 2,762

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

blablabbla

It's going to be kids new to the internet that will suffer here. I made it clear.

Similarly, it's going to be dumb kids trying to phish other kids, probably not knowing how to circumvent IP bans.

Yes we know it's easy to shoop, we're not dumb, and it's not like any screenshot will be accepted as proof without any critical eye (we have chat logs that come with reports you know).

We're considering a two-step authentication system, but you don't whip that out in a day, and considering these phishing attempts are a recent trend, we had to do something and do it fast.

Also, why are you even here? As much as I like receiving feedback/criticism, all you do is complain instead of being useful.

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No u.

eeisold

Member

Joined: 2015-06-14

Posts: 202

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

"probably not knowing" ok

If your chat logs that come with reports were credible, why would you need a screenshot? (Answer: something that still leaves the information via screenshot vulnerable)

You're considering it, have you mentioned it before now? To what extreme would you "consider" that system? 1/10 chance? Do you admin/developers actually take EE that seriously? (If you're saying two-step as in password and phone. Sending those phone messages might take some funds, oh no). Recent trend? sure.

You don't like "feedback/criticism" when you respond to such messages with abusive ad hominem.
You're right, I point out various flaws that I see in those who choose to put themselves in front (the collective mods/admins/guardians). Most of those remarks have to do with their seeming inability to do their jobs efficiently. No one is called to be useful in EE. (there's a transition to the above collective that we won't branch down).
Nor is anyone called to be useful in the forums. I need not bother arguing for my usefulness because it's not necessary.

---

Those who can't do, teach.
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.
I think fish is nice, but then I think that rain is wet, so who am I to judge?
For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen.

Hexagon

Member

Joined: 2015-04-22

Posts: 1,213

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

Whoa whoa whoa. So, evidence is posting a screenshot of the chat, by uploading to a website and then posting the link in a /report memo? This can be easily photoshopped. Just make a black background and type some stuff in grey text. This can (and probably has been) wrongly used to ban people, on the basis of something that can be easily faked.

What prevents one of the admins from accessing the chat messages from the server? This would seem like an easy thing to do.

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???

Nou

Member

Joined: 2015-02-24

Posts: 2,762

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

"probably not knowing" ok

If your chat logs that come with reports were credible, why would you need a screenshot? (Answer: something that still leaves the information via screenshot vulnerable)

You're considering it, have you mentioned it before now? To what extreme would you "consider" that system? 1/10 chance? Do you admin/developers actually take EE that seriously? (If you're saying two-step as in password and phone. Sending those phone messages might take some funds, oh no). Recent trend? sure.

You don't like "feedback/criticism" when you respond to such messages with abusive ad hominem.
You're right, I point out various flaws that I see in those who choose to put themselves in front (the collective mods/admins/guardians). Most of those remarks have to do with their seeming inability to do their jobs efficiently. No one is called to be useful in EE. (there's a transition to the above collective that we won't branch down).
Nor is anyone called to be useful in the forums. I need not bother arguing for my usefulness because it's not necessary.

I'll admit I read the post in a rush and misread some things, so my apologies there.

The screenshots thing we're doing for a reason I can't disclose because doing so would void our reasons for doing so.

No we hadn't considered the two-step auth system before running into the current situation, we never felt it was necessary before. You can use email for this system well, despite our better judgements we do actually think things through sometimes! Chances of it actually happening is slim, but we'll see how the situation develops.

I do actually appreciate feedback/criticism, but your phrasing sometimes strays from that ("idiotic, pitiful, throw on another diminutive")

Don't give me the ad hominem argument btw, you're much better at that than I am:
http://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewto … 89#p512489

The reason I called you out on your usefulness is because I question your motives. As far as I've see you post, it's been nothing but negativity (I know it's an alt made for that specifically, but it makes  me wonder why you feel an alt is required). Because of this solely negative attitude it makes me wonder whether you're here to just cause drama or whether you're an actual player who cares about the game. Then again, considering you made an alt (seriously why?) and write such extensive post, I strongly hope it's the former.

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No u.

Anch

Member

Joined: 2015-02-16

Posts: 5,447

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

I think zoey had good intentions, but I do admit it went a little too far.

eeisold

Member

Joined: 2015-06-14

Posts: 202

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

@Nou
Naturally, the self-voiding reason is suspicious, but I guess I have to leave it be.

Seeing as how the two-step method is (so far) the only solution I can see that provides a logical, near-impossible layer of protection against this phishing, the fact that its chances for implementation are slim is too bad. The e-mail alternative does pose the issue where many users use the same password. (Yes, I note the questionable investigation by Zoey2070 didn't find this to be the case in EE, but the sample field was quite small-- three? two?)

You're right, my phrasing does occasionally stray onto the path of direct insult. I find that being frank and saying "I feel this protocol is an unacceptable violation of security on users' behalf" doesn't quite carry the same weight as "[your idea is] idiotic, pitiful, [etc]". Well, it's either more effective, or it just feels good. Of course, we can't ever know which would have been more effective, as events have already happened.

wikipedia's page on ad hominem describes "Tu quoque" -- Basically, you're right, and wrong. You're not disproving me, just calling me a hypocrite. (Which I cannot deny... except:)
That post in particular (as explained two posts down) was to gain an argument regarding the points I had made on the previous page, as it had been flooded by near nonsense.

So I figure, if (sufficiently) thought-out arguments don't belong on this forum, well. Do as the romans do.
(as far as I can tell, that entails sending a max 3-line message (oh carp i'm breaking the rule) that has very little constructive value)

For your last point, I'm confused. You hope I'm stirring up drama, rather than trying to improve the game? Or do you think that to be the case? Again, I get to throw the latin "ad hominem" for my answer. Even though it doesn't affect me if the game dies or not, my points of flawed 'reporting procedure' aren't refuted. My answer then is in the gray area.

---

Those who can't do, teach.
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.
I think fish is nice, but then I think that rain is wet, so who am I to judge?
For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen.

Nou

Member

Joined: 2015-02-24

Posts: 2,762

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

@Nou
Naturally, the self-voiding reason is suspicious, but I guess I have to leave it be.

Seeing as how the two-step method is (so far) the only solution I can see that provides a logical, near-impossible layer of protection against this phishing, the fact that its chances for implementation are slim is too bad. The e-mail alternative does pose the issue where many users use the same password. (Yes, I note the questionable investigation by Zoey2070 didn't find this to be the case in EE, but the sample field was quite small-- three? two?)

You're right, my phrasing does occasionally stray onto the path of direct insult. I find that being frank and saying "I feel this protocol is an unacceptable violation of security on users' behalf" doesn't quite carry the same weight as "[your idea is] idiotic, pitiful, [etc]". Well, it's either more effective, or it just feels good. Of course, we can't ever know which would have been more effective, as events have already happened.

wikipedia's page on ad hominem describes "Tu quoque" -- Basically, you're right, and wrong. You're not disproving me, just calling me a hypocrite. (Which I cannot deny... except:)
That post in particular (as explained two posts down) was to gain an argument regarding the points I had made on the previous page, as it had been flooded by near nonsense.

So I figure, if (sufficiently) thought-out arguments don't belong on this forum, well. Do as the romans do.
(as far as I can tell, that entails sending a max 3-line message (oh carp i'm breaking the rule) that has very little constructive value)

For your last point, I'm confused. You hope I'm stirring up drama, rather than trying to improve the game? Or do you think that to be the case? Again, I get to throw the latin "ad hominem" for my answer. Even though it doesn't affect me if the game dies or not, my points of flawed 'reporting procedure' aren't refuted. My answer then is in the gray area.

I meant latter :/

I understand the reasoning but I feel in this situation the phrasing is often unnecessary. I mean, I'm here, I read, I respond, and for me having to result to "such language" seems to indicate a history of not being heard. If that's the case, sure, I understand, but for me it just makes the point you're trying to make seem tainted by phrasing. Your post, however, does at least show a critical attitude towards yourself and I can't do anything but respect that.

On topic: The two-step authentication was only brought up somewhere today and we're still gauging the situation (plus other work needs to be done). The same password between accounts would definitely be an issue, you're right, but text messages aren't really an option here.

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No u.

eeisold

Member

Joined: 2015-06-14

Posts: 202

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

Alright. Thanks for leveling with me. (and us, I suppose, including those in the community who care to be enlightened)
Again, two-step sounds promising. While I can't see any solution that could reach the level of security this could offer, I imagine there's an idea out there that suits the 'kids new to the internet' in this unique environment we call EE.

---

Those who can't do, teach.
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.
I think fish is nice, but then I think that rain is wet, so who am I to judge?
For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen.

Michele

Formerly AntonioS300

From: EE world

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 1,351

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

Finally, I managed to get that to be important that it had to be put in news!

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Insanity

Member

From: Douchebag Island

Joined: 2015-03-07

Posts: 1,123

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

i phished a few  7  year olds the other day, ye its safe to say they were dumb as hell, no harm done if they dont play the game

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Maverick: Started up on a 6, when he pulled from the clouds, and then I moved in above him.
Charlie: Well, if you were directly above him, how could you see him?
Maverick: Because I was inverted.

cooldude76

Member

From: the pizza hut is gone

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 650

Website

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

happened to me today,

little do they know i actually read the blog posts

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hello there! please ignore my old signature, it didn't exist

Kirby

Member

Joined: 2015-04-04

Posts: 4,305

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

happened to me today,

little do they know i actually read the blog posts

I think the 111's were a hint of sarcasm, but I wasn't there, so I dunno

cooldude76

Member

From: the pizza hut is gone

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 650

Website

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

happened to me today,

little do they know i actually read the blog posts

I think the 111's were a hint of sarcasm, but I wasn't there, so I dunno

Other people got the PM too, they actually believed him. (they are nubs)

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hello there! please ignore my old signature, it didn't exist

Michele

Formerly AntonioS300

From: EE world

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 1,351

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

happened to me today,

little do they know i actually read the blog posts

Q: Someone said I won the lotto. What I should do?

EE doesn't have a lotto. If you see someone saying you've won a lottery THIS IS A SCAM. Report him immendiately.

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cooldude76

Member

From: the pizza hut is gone

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 650

Website

Re: Peoples who claim to be a moderator/guardian

happened to me today,

little do they know i actually read the blog posts

Q: Someone said I won the lotto. What I should do?

EE doesn't have a lotto. If you see someone saying you've won a lottery THIS IS A SCAM. Report him immendiately.

I did, with the exact same photo.

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hello there! please ignore my old signature, it didn't exist