Do you think I could just leave this part blank and it'd be okay? We're just going to replace the whole thing with a header image anyway, right?
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But there is a different between civilian and civilian. Western media will of course call the rebels for civilians, because western media supports the warfare. Gaddafi has not gone berserkers mode slaughtering his own people, instead he has gone berserkers mode on those whom want Gaddafi dead although Gaddafi has done many great things for the people of Libya.
So there is a difference between humans just because of what side they're on? So because the rebels, who are just as much citizens of Libya as Gaddafi is, want freedom from Gaddafi's rule they are less important then him? I fail to see the logic in that.
And you shall not bring up old happenings since the warfare is due to the most recent skirmishes with the rebels.
I will, because they show what kind of person Gaddafi is. And the roots of the current warfare stretch back many decades. But if you want current quotes and actions from Gaddafi, fine. Here's some for you:
Gaddafi has accused his opponents as those who have been influenced by hallucinogenic drugs put in drinks and pills. He has specifically referred to substances in milk, coffee and Nescafé. He has claimed that Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda are distributing these hallucinogenic drugs. He has also blamed alcohol. He later also claimed that the revolt against his rule is the result of a colonialist plot by foreign states, particularly blaming France, the United States, and the United Kingdom, to control oil and enslave the Libyan people. Gaddafi referred to the protesters as "cockroaches" and "rats", and vowed not to step down and to cleanse Libya house by house until the insurrection was crushed. Gaddafi declared that people who don't "love" him "do not deserve to live". Gaddafi called himself a "warrior", and vowed to fight on and die a "martyr", and urged his supporters to leave their homes and attack protesters "in their lairs". Gaddafi claimed that he had not yet ordered the use of force, and threatened that "everything will burn" when he did. Responding to demands that he step down, Gaddafi claimed that he could not step down, as he held a purely symbolic position like Queen Elizabeth, and that the people were in power.
A Swedish arms trafficking watchdog organization observed flights between Tripoli and Belarus, including visits to a dedicated Belorussian military base that only handles stockpiled weaponry and military equipment. Pro-Gaddafi forces have allegedly used civilians to protect key sites, like the Bab al-Azizia compound in Tripoli, from air strikes.
Or, how about this?
The Libyan government employed snipers, artillery, helicopter gunships, warplanes, anti-aircraft weaponry, and warships against demonstrations and funeral processions, and security forces repeatedly fired at protesters with live ammunition. Amnesty International reported that writers, intellectuals and other prominent opposition sympathizers disappeared during the early days of the conflict in Gaddafi-controlled cities, and that they may have been subjected to torture or execution. Amnesty International also reported that security forces targeted paramedics helping injured protesters. In multiple incidents, Gaddafi's forces were documented using ambulances in their attacks. Injured demonstrators were sometimes denied access to hospitals and ambulance transport. The government also banned giving blood transfusions to people who had taken part in the demonstrations. Security forces, including members of Gaddafi's Revolutionary Committees, stormed hospitals and removed the dead. Injured protesters were either summarily executed or had their oxygen masks, IV drips, and wires connected to the monitors removed. The dead and injured were piled into vehicles and taken away, possibly for cremation. Doctors were prevented from documenting the numbers of dead and wounded, but an orderly in a Tripoli hospital morgue estimated to the BBC that 600?700 protesters were killed in Green Square in Tripoli on 20 February. The orderly claimed that ambulances brought in three or four corpses at a time, and that after the ice lockers were filled to capacity, bodies were placed on stretchers or the floor, and that "it was in the same at the other hospitals".
I suggest you read more.
Last edited by LightShadow (Jul 2 2011 6:08:30 pm)
I think we should nuke everyone but Canada 'cuz 'merica, **** yeah! /sarcasm
Or we could get people to troll, in real life. :O
I think we should nuke everyone but Canada 'cuz 'merica, **** yeah! /sarcasm
Wait, nuke africa!?
You dissrepsectful fool.
Going to make your words the color black, but then you kill us D:
@LightShadow: Yes, there is a difference between rebels and peaceful civilians. Since the rebels want Gaddafi dead, I can not see the problem with Gaddafi killing them?
That red quote is fully legitime to me, read what I wrote above.
Obama would do exactly the same as Gaddafi if rebels tried to kill him. Gaddafi has been a great man for the Libyan people, and had big plans coming for Africa and the African people. It's not Gaddafi whom have bombed cities, murdering women, children and old people. It's NATO that's bringing the heat.
Gaddhaffi is and is never been a great leader, his "Green book" is completely random and he has suppressed the people for many years, he also financed anti-israel organizations and have you ever ehard of Lockerbie?
Maybe the reason the people began demonstrating
Offline
^ Is seems backup has arrived. Welcome to the debate, EDJ.
@LightShadow: Yes, there is a difference between rebels and peaceful civilians. Since the rebels want Gaddafi dead, I can not see the problem with Gaddafi killing them?
That red quote is fully legitime to me, read what I wrote above.
Obama would do exactly the same as Gaddafi if rebels tried to kill him. Gaddafi has been a great man for the Libyan people, and had big plans coming for Africa and the African people. It's not Gaddafi whom have bombed cities, murdering women, children and old people. It's NATO that's bringing the heat.
I suggest you read the red quote again. He's talking about protesters, not rebels. I also suggest you read the rest of what I posted again.
Here's one: "The Libyan government employed snipers, artillery, helicopter gunships, warplanes, anti-aircraft weaponry, and warships against demonstrations and funeral processions, and security forces repeatedly fired at protesters with live ammunition."
That's part of what I posted before.
Here's one more Wikipedia quote.
Gaddafi suppressed the protests in Tripoli by distributing automobiles, money and weapons for hired followers to drive around Tripoli and attack people showing signs of dissent. Snipers, mercenaries, and combat aircraft were also used against demonstrations. The International Federation for Human Rights concluded that Gaddafi is implementing a strategy of scorched earth and seeks to eliminate and suppress Libyan citizens who stood up against his regime. In Tripoli, "death squads" of mercenaries and Revolutionary Committees members patrolled the streets, and shot people who tried to take the dead off the streets or gather in groups.
Do you know what scorched earth strategy is? To bomb anything that is of use to the enemy. Not only did Gaddafi do this to the rebels, he did it to protesters. To add on to that, he had his soldiers rape and kill women. Read some of my earlier posts, that's in there too.
He's been convicted of crimes against humanity by the International Criminal Court.
Here's a quote from Gaddfi from 1982, long before the rise of the rebels.
"It is the Libyan people's responsibility to liquidate such scums who are distorting Libya's image abroad."
?Gaddafi talking about exiles in 1982.
Gaddafi is far from innocent.
Here's something else for you to read. The History of Libya under Muammar al-Gaddafi.
Last edited by LightShadow (Jul 3 2011 3:30:09 pm)
@EDJ: The only reason why Western media and politicians portray Gaddafi as the bad guy is because he does not kneel before USA and Israel, he does not agree with the International Monetary Fund and the economic guidelines that the rest of the capitalistical world tries to enforce on poorer countries. Remember that the Western world is in war with Gaddafi, they will never, ever, tell you what good he has done for the people of Libya.
Gaddafi has made Libya evolve since the nineties. Libyas finances has increased, the people has become more educated, they have a good, solid, social safety net and the standard of living is better than in most of the African and third world countries (even better than some European countries). Yes, Gaddafi has ruled with an iron hand, but it has been for the Libyan peoples good, and for the African peoples good. He has worked hard to tighten and improve the relationship between African countries, and his latest project was to build a water system that would provide all of Africa with water, so that Africa would not have to rely on the US and the EU when it comes to agricultural goods. That's because with the current system in the world, Africa would never be able to rise and evolve into rich countries (if they had to rely on the US and the EU). Imagine what would happend if Africa could provide its own agricultural goods, and if the people of Africa could drink fresh water. The result would be fatal for the US and the EUs economy.
That is the reason for the warfare in Libya. The information about Gaddafi snipering children and women, and bombing and executing civilians is a hoax. There is no solid evidence of those actions. The only people that have been bombed or executed/killed by Gaddafi are proletarian revolutionists. There have been "reports" of "death squads" executing people in the streets of Tripoli. There was "reports" from eyewitnesses in Auswitch concentration camp that said that the Nazis created soap from dead jews. But there is no solid evidence for the "reports".
I'm not that familiar with the Lockerbie-incident (just know some basic stuff), but it could just as might have been an inside job like 9/11. I wont say anything more about that since I'm, as I said, not familiar with this particular incident.
Which anti-Israel organizations did he help to finance and for what purpose?
@LightShadow: I can not see any valid evidence to your quotation from Wikipedia that Gaddafi would have hired mercenaries to kill demonstrators.
And I will say it again. Obama would completely annihilate any rebels that would try to take the power away from him by warfare. The same would David Cameron in the UK, or Sarkozy in France. Western media is trying to justify the rebels actions because the Western media is controlled by capitalists, those people whom are fighting against Gaddafi, and those people whom Gaddafi oppose. But if proletarian revolutionists would arose in the US or the EU, there would be a massive amount of malicious reports from media against the same kind of rebels, just because these rebels would not benefit to the capitalistical world order.
Why aint the US and NATO bombing Israel for their crimes against the palestinians? Israel is ruled by a government, that believe in the jews racial supremacy, and that doesn't take action against the rabbis of Israel that wants concentration camps for the arabs. There is one simple answer to that question. They are all on the same side, they are all corrupted capitalists, hiding in the same tent.
I can promise you this, before I leave this debate as I will (since I'm outrageous at the moment); Libya will not evolve when Gaddafi is gone, they will just fall down deeper into the third world swamp marshes that the capitalists have forsaken and are now taking advantage of. There has been none improvements in Iraq, there has been none improvements in Egypt, and there will be no improvements in Libya.
If they really wanted to prosecute massmurderers in the war tribunal in Haag, they would start with themselves, since they have killed more humans than anyone of these dictators.
@LightShadow: I can not see any valid evidence to your quotation from Wikipedia that Gaddafi would have hired mercenaries to kill demonstrators.
*Facepalm* No valid evidence?! I've been linking you to Wikipedia articles, and in those Wikipedia articles are numbers. Click on those numbers, and it will redirect you to the sources.
And, while we're talking about "valid evidence", I haven't seen you present any to support your claims that Gaddafi is all love and goodness and wouldn't hurt a fly. I've found overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
But for ease of access, here are all the Wikipedia articles for you to skim through.
History of Libya under Muammar al-Gaddafi
Human rights in Libya
2011 Libyan civil war
Muammar Gaddafi
Libya
Feel free to browse through the sources.
And I will say it again. Obama would completely annihilate any rebels that would try to take the power away from him by warfare. The same would David Cameron in the UK, or Sarkozy in France. Western media is trying to justify the rebels actions because the Western media is controlled by capitalists, those people whom are fighting against Gaddafi, and those people whom Gaddafi oppose. But if proletarian revolutionists would arose in the US or the EU, there would be a massive amount of malicious reports from media against the same kind of rebels, just because these rebels would not benefit to the capitalistical world order.
Last I checked, the rebels started as protesters, but turned into rebels when they started getting shot at. There are plenty of protests in the United States every day, but the government doesn't bring in the army to shoot at them.
Also, we don't have a dictator-for-life. If the people of the United States don't agree with the President and the job he's doing, they vote him out of office. There's no need for uprisings.
Also, I would like to remind you, Gaddafi wasn't voted into power. He engineered a coup d'état while the King of Libya was in Turkey for medical treatment. Kind of cowardly to hit man when he's down.
Why aint the US and NATO bombing Israel for their crimes against the palestinians? Israel is ruled by a government, that believe in the jews racial supremacy, and that doesn't take action against the rabbis of Israel that wants concentration camps for the arabs. There is one simple answer to that question. They are all on the same side, they are all corrupted capitalists, hiding in the same tent.
Oh please. The Israelis and Palestinians have been kicking each other out of Israel for as long as anyone can remember. It's been going back and forth for a long time. Who's to judge who is right and who is wrong?
I can promise you this, before I leave this debate as I will (since I'm outrageous at the moment); Libya will not evolve when Gaddafi is gone, they will just fall down deeper into the third world swamp marshes that the capitalists have forsaken and are now taking advantage of. There has been none improvements in Iraq, there has been none improvements in Egypt, and there will be no improvements in Libya.
How do you know they're fall down deeper? Way to count someone out before the fight has ever begun.
If Libya gets a good and fair leader who knows what he's doing, they could become a better country than they ever where. Only time will tell. And if you think you're outraged, just imagine how I feel. My dad fought and bled for this country, and is still bleeding to this day. I get furious when people lob baseless accusations at us.
If they really wanted to prosecute massmurderers in the war tribunal in Haag, they would start with themselves, since they have killed more humans than anyone of these dictators.
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O rly? Read some history books. Dictators like Hitler, Stalin, and Mao have killed MANY more people than NATO and the U.N.
@LightShadow: Wikipedia articles are not valid. Link me to the specific source of your facts. I bet you have not gone through the sources yourself.
I've got valid evidence, if you want to learn Swedish I would gladly link you to my source.
There are no armed protests in the USA everyday. But if there would be, it would be a slaughterhouse.
The Israelis with the backup from the UK (and the US?) are the bad guys. They took palestinian soil.
I know that they will fall deeper down because look at Egypt and Iraq, two countries freed from extremely scary, savage, cruel tyrants. Those countries are crap right now. There are new armed protests in Egypt, and Western politicans/media said that everything would be fine if just Mubarak would leave.
It doesn't matter if Libya gets a good leader that knows what he is doing. Gaddafi knows exactly what he is doing and the last thing the countries of Africa needs is to join the International Monetary Fund and the economic guidelines decided by the richer part of the world. They need to stay out from that, if they want their economy to flourish.
I'm sorry to tell you this, but your father didn't bleed for your good. He bled for the sake of some greedy capitalists that made him believe (as they have done with most of us) that he was fighting for his own peoples good.
Hitler, Stalin and Mao is dead, read some history books. The regimes that is a true plague for humanity is the US, Israel, and the EU. The leaders of these countries, current leaders and previous leaders, are those whom should be put in trial.
Amen brother ^^
@LightShadow: Wikipedia articles are not valid. Link me to the specific source of your facts. I bet you have not gone through the sources yourself.
Wikipedia is just as valid a source as your conspiracy website. In fact, the 2011 Libyan civil war article has over 500 refrences. Here they are.
Most of them are from news organizations around the world.
I've got valid evidence, if you want to learn Swedish I would gladly link you to my source.
Feel free to give me the link to your source. I'll worry about the Swedish part.
There are no armed protests in the USA everyday. But if there would be, it would be a slaughterhouse.
I seriously doubt it. The only people who come close to threatening to do that are the Tea Party. But if someone in the Tea Party ever called for an armed overthrow of the government, probably only 5 people would show up. They're all bark and no bite. But I'll say it once again, we don't have a dictator-for-life. The people don't need to violently overthrow the current leader. Just wait four years and vote him out of office.
The Israelis with the backup from the UK (and the US?) are the bad guys. They took palestinian soil.
Actually, the Palestinians took the land from the Israelis in 636. Technically the Israelis only took it back.
You're a Lutheran, aren't you? Then surely you must know that the Bible prophesied that the Israelis would take Israel back after their long exile.
I know that they will fall deeper down because look at Egypt and Iraq, two countries freed from extremely scary, savage, cruel tyrants. Those countries are crap right now. There are new armed protests in Egypt, and Western politicans/media said that everything would be fine if just Mubarak would leave.
Considering how it takes time to set up a new government, it doesn't surprise me that Egypt looks like it's in bad shape. The U.S. looked like that too when we were getting started.
It doesn't matter if Libya gets a good leader that knows what he is doing. Gaddafi knows exactly what he is doing and the last thing the countries of Africa needs is to join the International Monetary Fund and the economic guidelines decided by the richer part of the world. They need to stay out from that, if they want their economy to flourish.
Actually, it does matter that they get a good leader that knows what he's doing. That's the whole point of a leader.
I'd like to point out that their economies aren't exactly flourishing at the moment either. And your army, government officials, and citizens turning against you isn't a sign that you know what you're doing.
I'm sorry to tell you this, but your father didn't bleed for your good. He bled for the sake of some greedy capitalists that made him believe (as they have done with most of us) that he was fighting for his own peoples good.
I'm sorry to tell you this, but you're dead wrong. He did bleed for my good. He bled for my family's sake. If he had not gone through everything he went through in his life, I wouldn't be here. Neither would my siblings. He fought for my family's sake. He was blown up for my family's sake. He nearly died for my family's sake. I can guarantee that's more than you've done. You're sorry? No, I'm afraid it's the other way around. I feel sorry for you.
Hitler, Stalin and Mao is dead, read some history books. The regimes that is a true plague for humanity is the US, Israel, and the EU. The leaders of these countries, current leaders and previous leaders, are those whom should be put in trial.
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
Oh, and on trial for what? You've been saying that the leaders of these countries should be put on trial. By whom? The U.N.? Considering how NATO lead the attack on Libya, I don't see how that would work. And what would the U.S. be found guilty of? Destroying military installations? Doesn't exactly compare to the crimes against humanity the Gaddafi was found guilty of.
Last edited by LightShadow (Jul 4 2011 10:44:59 am)
I want you to provide me with the exact sources that proves that there are death squads shooting people in the streets of Tripoli. I will not go through that list.
Here's my sources from the Swedish institute of foreign affairs:
Standard of living
http://www.landguiden.se/Lander/Afrika/ … rhallanden
Education
http://www.landguiden.se/Lander/Afrika/ … Utbildning
Economy
http://www.landguiden.se/Lander/Afrika/Libyen/Ekonomi
Jobs
http://www.landguiden.se/Lander/Afrika/ … etsmarknad
No sign Gaddafi bombed Tripoli - NATO wages war on false crimes
http://youtu.be/hDt92tR2YnA
The mercenaries is a lie
http://youtu.be/FlOA3aMkDLk
US orchestrates regime change in Libya, using social media as usual
http://youtu.be/nWaRueeetUA
Gaddafi did not attack his own people
http://youtu.be/2L6vA0OIITc
The media lies
http://youtu.be/t_ku0rLVdWg
Farrakhan Blasts Obama On Libya Bombing (Maybe the most important clip)
http://youtu.be/_lB4oIGFxaw
Libyan War Is For Water
http://youtu.be/5FUdeAg5uug
Farrakhan again...
http://youtu.be/yKpt2hZPMV0
NATO sheds the blood of civilians
http://youtu.be/oGIciB9wRwY
CIA started the war
http://youtu.be/KhJk1gXDGJY
US bombings illegal
http://youtu.be/-Zx6WXp3CTI
Here is another article in Swedish about Libya before the revolution
http://www.alternativjournalen.se/vagra … n--3208852
This is how Iraq is today, after USAs beautiful warfare
http://youtu.be/pf5oRfXE07I
http://youtu.be/cqAymBhMAfo
http://youtu.be/rEogZPrV93U
Egypt after the revolution
http://youtu.be/qIX-m5DP6qM
Farrakhan once again....
http://youtu.be/qNLqQ2cN-PA
_________
Okay, so that means that Sweden, with warfare, can take back Finland, Norway, Denmark, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and parts of Germany without being the bad guys?
Yes, I do know about that prophecy, and I've got no problem with that, but I've got a problem with they way they have taken their country back.
_________
Their economies are growing, Libyas GDP is growing with 10,6 % which is really good.
_________
That's your opinion about your fathers sacrifice. I do believe that he was a brave man, with a good will, and I give all my best wishes to your father.
_________
They should be put on trial because they are the leaders of countries that's murdering thousands of innocent people in Libya. They should be put on trial by the relatives to all people that their bombs and bullets have killed. These people, whom are giving the orders to invade that land and bomb that land are the true criminals in this world. I linked a videos that describes Obamas crimes (here's another video http://youtu.be/hskeeCFjRqg).
_________
I hope that you have no plans for today, because if you want to understand me, you have to watch all of the videos.
If you excuse me, I will go and watch a movie.
Last edited by TheGreenTroll (Jul 4 2011 4:35:29 pm)
I hope you don't have any plans either. Here are some of my sources.
News24, South Africa's news site.
http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/Gadda … s-20110224
Malta's News Site, with reports of mercenaries.
http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/Gadda … s-20110224
Amnesty International, about pro-Gaddafi security forces are shooting paramedics.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-upda … 2011-03-04
The Telegraph, reporting on 140 protesters who were shot. Includes eyewitness video.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … ssent.html
ABC news, talking about the mercenaries. Also has video.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/lib … d=12972216
Libya's jobless rate.
http://af.reuters.com/article/investing … 6820090302
Corruption Perceptions Index 2010 Results.
http://www.transparency.org/policy_rese … 10/results
Turkey news site.
http://www.todayszaman.com/columnist-23 … cracy.html
The Economist, on Gaddafi and his reign.
http://www.economist.com/node/18239888
The U.N.'s opinion.
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?N … =libya&Cr1
The Daily Telegraph, on the mercenaries.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … rimes.html
International Business Times, also on the mercenaries.
http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/118924/2 … /libya.htm
Reuters, an African news site, on the mercenaries.
http://af.reuters.com/article/drcNews/i … 1N20110224
Civilians flee as Gaddafi's forces continue to shell city.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/internatio … &FEEDNAME=
Former captive tells of the 'horror movie' violence meted by Libyan soldiers, and how he came to escape a similar fate.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ap … ness-sirte
President Obama, talking about Libya.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-off … tion-libya
War crimes prosecutor seeks Gaddafi warrant.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europ … 07456.html
Defecting soldiers executed by Gaddafi forces.
http://www.maltastar.com/pages/r1/ms10dart.asp?a=14347
More mercenaries killing people.
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne … ured-libya
Protesters being killed.
http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/Libya … d-20110223
African news site reporting on mercenaries.
http://allafrica.com/stories/201102250009.html
Story of woman raped by Gaddafi forces.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … s-men.html
Libya: BBC crew beaten and given mock executions.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … tions.html
Libya fights protesters with snipers, grenades.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011 … 143581.htm
More, than 1,000 people are thought to have died in violence in Libya as government forces continue to crackdown on protesters demanding an end to Col Gaddafi's regime.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … -dead.html
Now Gaddafi blames hallucinogenic pills mixed with Nescafe and bin Laden for uprisings... before ordering bloody hit on a mosque.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … ising.html
Evidence of Libya torture emerges.
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/afri … 45671.html
Frustrations over corruption and incompetence in government housing schemes for poor families spills over into protests across the country.
http://www.mesop.de/2011/01/16/libya-pr … third-day/
Okay, so that means that Sweden, with warfare, can take back Finland, Norway, Denmark, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and parts of Germany without being the bad guys?
Funny you should mention that. Sweden ruled over all of those countries with an iron fist, and even enslaved the Danes. They all won their independence from Sweden. Kind of reminds me of...oh, I don't know... Libya?
That's your opinion about your fathers sacrifice.
Actually, it's a fact.
Yes, I do know about that prophecy, and I've got no problem with that, but I've got a problem with they way they have taken their country back.
And how should they have taken it back? The Palestinians wouldn't have given it back.
I also find it interesting that Israel, to reclaim Israel, had to fight against three larger countries that were much better prepared and armed than Israel was. Israel was surrounded, and yet won. Go figure.
These articles are just scratching the surface. There are plenty more.
I hope that you have no plans for today, because if you want to understand me, you have to read all of the articles and watch the videos the are included in some.
If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go spend time with my family.
Source 1 & 2. This is a second-hand source, with reports from eyewitnesses. Reports from eyewitnesses shall always be taken lightly and I have hard to believe that that has happened since there are really no evidence of these executions.
3. The rebels have bombed and killed policemen, Gaddafi bombs and kills medics. It's war.
4. The video does only show people running around, a person lying on the floor and blood, and again there is stories from eyewitnesses. It is hard to call that evidence for Gaddafi hiring snipers killing women and childrens.
5. One of my video included an interview with the mercenaries. The mercenaries said that it was the rebels that hired them, not Gaddafi. Then say that the rebels robbed the mercenaries and that's why they have fled to Egypt.
6. My source says that the jobless rate is 13 %.
7. What do you want me to say? I've never said that Libya is not a corrupt country.
8. That Turkish news site didn't give any information nor evidence of Gaddafi killing peaceful civilians, but it confirmed what I have been saying about Libya as a country.
9. This source also confirms what I have been saying, but it does also retell the stories about the mercenaries and gives us a history lesson about Libya. Same here, no evidence for what you are saying.
10. Read 9.
11, 12 & 13. Read 5.
14. One of my sources says that satellite photos taken over Libya does not show any signs of Gaddafi bombings.
15. Soldiers torturing rebels? Does no other soldiers under other leaders torture enemies?
16. Obama does not provide any proof, just the same gibberish that you hear from all the leaders of the Western world.
17. Okay. But just because you are wanted, it does not mean that you are guilty. And the article tells us about some kind of evidence, but does not provide any evidence.
18. There is no proof that the people in that video would have been killed by Gaddafis soldiers.
19. Read 5.
20. This article needs to provide more information. We are not given any information if there was skirmishes or such. And if the orders came from Gaddafi to kill the soldiers that didn't want to shoot at their antagonists, I will agree on the part that he is stupid, but the problem here is that we are not (again) given any valuable information, evidence or detailed reports about the death tolls, reasons and culprits.
21. Read 5.
22. And an American reporter was raped by protestors in Egypt. What is the relevance of that article?
23. The same happened in Egypt.
24. They are in war, if they are going to fight the regime, they shall not be suprised when the regime fights back. It's no big deal that Gaddafi forces are bombing protestors, since the rebels are doing the same thing. This article is just an article that reports about the atrocities committed in war.
25. First, it's an estimation. Secondly, NATO and rebel forces has also killed people in this war, as I have given reports of.
26. Relevance?
27. Read 15.
28. If you watch my video with Farrakhan in the radio show, he will describe well how Gaddafi have/has plans for housing projects.
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Sweden enslaving the Danes? I would like to know what year and during what period in Swedish history Sweden enslaved the Danes, because I have never, ever heard about that.
Sweden did never ruled occupied parts of Europe with an iron fist, they didn't do anything more cruel than what they used to do at that time. When Sweden lost the war against Russia we lost Livonia (that became occupied by Russia), we surrendered to Sachsen, Poland, Gottorp, Bremen-Verden, Pommern, Usedom, Wollin and Schleswig. We made peace with the Danes, Norway was still in our control until 1905 and no atrocoties was ever committed against the people of Norway. Finland literally cried when we had to divide our countries in 1809 because of the fear of Russia. Swedish-Finish relationships has always been good since Sweden has done so much for that country.
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Along with the fact that he did fight the capitalists war.
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I'm done, your turn.
1. Disputed by two of my links.
2. Disputed by one of my links.
3. Doesn't tell me anything new.
4. Ditto.
5, 8, 9, 14, 15, 18. All clips from the RT news network. Much of its funding comes from the Russian Federal Budget. Russia is Libya's ally. And several of the things they talk about has been disputed by other news networks.
6. Is there proof he's speaking the truth? You yourself said "Reports from eyewitnesses shall always be taken lightly". Besides, I wouldn't put it past pro-Gaddafi forces to force/bribe someone to say something.
7. The whole basis of this argument is that Libyans can't access the internet. I watch the news, you know? CNN interviewed an eyewitness, and he explained how he uploaded his videos (Some of which were in the video), by fleeing across the border to Tunisia. That's where he was interviewed by CNN. After that, he went back into Libya to continue with the protests.
10, 12, 19. I did some research on Farrakhan, and found that he spits hate from his mouth, he likes to flip flop on political issues, and believes that UFOs will reveal themselves in a matter of days. He also believes in a lot of far fetched conspiracies, and has said some really.... disturbing... things....
13. Won't dispute that. Like I said before, NATO's been botching up the whole thing.
11. 1 minute into the video, and this guy has already dropped the f-bomb many times. If you're going to give a convincing speech, don't cuss. Also, it'd be a good idea to talk about sources and facts. He didn't, but he did advertise the aquifer. That, and say that America is controlled by Jews, and they're planning on getting the countries in Africa to fight among themselves. Yep... But they're doing a pretty good job without our help.
17. I won't dispute that Iraq was a mistake, but it was Bush that started that. Bush doesn't have a very big approval rating.
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Sweden enslaving the Danes? I would like to know what year and during what period in Swedish history Sweden enslaved the Danes, because I have never, ever heard about that.
Sweden did never ruled occupied parts of Europe with an iron fist, they didn't do anything more cruel than what they used to do at that time. When Sweden lost the war against Russia we lost Livonia (that became occupied by Russia), we surrendered to Sachsen, Poland, Gottorp, Bremen-Verden, Pommern, Usedom, Wollin and Schleswig. We made peace with the Danes, Norway was still in our control until 1905 and no atrocoties was ever committed against the people of Norway. Finland literally cried when we had to divide our countries in 1809 because of the fear of Russia. Swedish-Finish relationships has always been good since Sweden has done so much for that country.
Oops, my apologies. I made a mistake in choice of words. Enslaving was the wrong word (Although I did hear that somewhere, but I don't remember where). I should have said "oppressing". Denmark was a lot bigger that it is today, and Sweden never could stop attacking it. Especially after Denmark had just come off losing a war. The Torstenson War is an example.
Along with the fact that he did fight the capitalists war.
So? What's wrong with being a capitalist? I prefer to earn the money I work for.
Besides, you don't even know which war my dad fought in, so how can you say that with certainty? And it's a moot point saying he fought the capitalists' war. He was a combat medic, and fought because he wanted to.
I'd also like to address a couple of your replies.
22. And an American reporter was raped by protestors in Egypt. What is the relevance of that article?
Read it again. The article stated she was raped by Gaddafi's soldiers. In Libya, not Egypt.
3. The rebels have bombed and killed policemen, Gaddafi bombs and kills medics. It's war.
There's a difference between policemen who are working for Gaddafi and shooting at you, and a civilian medic who's trying to help people. Medics are neutral. Like Sweden.
26. Relevance?
Of course it's relevant. It gives an idea of Gaddafi's state of mind.
6. My source says that the jobless rate is 13 %.
Actually, your source states that it ranges for 13-30%.
It's no big deal that Gaddafi forces are bombing protestors, since the rebels are doing the same thing.
That statement is kind of cold. "Who cares if innocent civilians die?" Sounds like one of Gaddafi's quotes. Also, I haven't found anything credible saying that the rebels are bombing protesters. That'd be stupid, considering how the protesters are on the rebel's side. Also, the rebels don't have planes.
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On a final note, I'm done arguing. This debate has been getting to me, and making me angry. That's not a good thing, I already have enough problems controlling my temper.
We've both presented our arguments, and it seems that neither one of us will budge. So it's useless. I've also noticed that we've gone a bit off topic. >.>
Well, I hope there will be no hard feelings. (Although it may be hard to forget how you've been going after my dad, and I take that personally).
Well, I am finished.
But we both know I win. :-P [/joke]
Last edited by LightShadow (Jul 5 2011 3:46:15 pm)
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