Let's talk about issues in society

Pyromaniac · Before February 2015

LOL supa that made me lol

I for one have better things to do than go to washington.. (which i couldn't even GET to) and possibly get arrested..

Tako · Before February 2015

treejoe4 wrote:

Heres the video, WATCH IT ALL ITS ENTERTAINING AND IMFORMATIVE
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU[/youtube]

Wow.

I'll be looking forward to my personal finance class now, XD.

It's a hobby of mine to try and outsmart my teachers. This video will prove most valuable.

TheGreenTroll · Before February 2015

treejoe4 wrote:

Heres the video, WATCH IT ALL ITS ENTERTAINING AND IMFORMATIVE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU

Nice to see that you watched the clip! You guys should also check out the documentary about the 2008s financial crisis, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1645089/

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, I'm going to join this discussion and I will talk about how the rich world, with the help of free trade, abuses the third world.

Free trade, protectionism, and the first world abusal of the third world

I'll quote some stuff, just to give you guys a good explanation.

"Free trade is a system of trade policy that allows traders to trade across national boundaries without interference from the respective governments. According to the law of comparative advantage the policy permits trading partners mutual gains from trade of goods and services." - Wikipedia

In the quote, you can read about comparative advantages. Comparative advantages means that you are the best at something, for example producing cars. If you are the best at producing cars, you will gain from the free trade system. But how do you gain so much? Well, since you are the best, you outrival smaller corporations in the same industry. And that's the main theme I'll have in this post. I'll describe for you how to prevent it.

Todays politicans describe free trade as a way for the third world to come out from its poverty, but to be successfull in the system of free trade, you have to have comparative advantages. Do the third world countries have comparative advantages? No, they do not. They have resources. It's the rich countries that has the comparative advantages (Japan, technology, Germany, car industry, etc).

So it's basically impossible for third world countries to establish theirselves on the international market, since they do not have any domestic market - and that's the whole point of free trade. The rich countries knows this, and they are abusing that system. How?

Well, the third world export their resources (if I'm not wrong, it's their number one income) to the rich world. I'm not sure with the US, but when they trade with the EU, they have to pay massive customary fee. Then the rich world produces cars, computers, furnishings etc (on their domestic markets), from these resources. First of all, since the production of these products is in the rich world, it creates job opportunities for the inhabitants of the rich world, whilst the people of the third world is still jobless. Secondly, the price for the final product is of course more expensive than the price for the resources. So when third world countries wants to import the products, they have to pay a much more expensive price. They have no other choice than to do this (export cheap - import expensive), since they don't have any domestic markets.

That's the main problem, and it's a bad habit that our leaders are well aware of.

How do you prevent it?

The best way to prevent this from happening, and to create a domestic market is by implementing protectionism. That means high customary fees for countries that wants to export goods to your country, and to prohibit direct invesments in the corporations.

I'll describe it with two countries examples.

During the 1960's, Japan and Finland had no comparative advantages, while Germany and the USA was world leading in some industries. The per capita income in Finland and Japan was about 20 % lower than in Germany and the USA. But Japan and Finland managed to become world leading in two industries. Finland, the electronics industry (Nokia), and Japan, the car industry (Toyota). But today, both Japan and Finland has implemented the free trade system. I'll describe for you how they could do it.

What they did, was basically to implement high customary fees, prohibit direct investments in the corporations and letting the state controll the market. By doing so, both countries prevented foreign states (Germany and the US) to establish their corporations (which would have outrivaled the domestic market of Finland and Japan, and force them into the same bad habit as the third world countries are experiencing today).

Japan used this system for about 40 years, and after those 40 years of protectionism, Toyota became one of the largest automobile-corporations in the world.

During the first 17 years of Nokias history, there was no benefit or whatsoever.

It was first when these countries had gained their comparative advantages, by keeping away rivals and protecting the corporations, that they could open up their markets for the international market. They could do so, because they were world leading in the industries - and all thanks to protectionism.

Conclusion

What am I trying to say to you?

Basically that because of how much the rich world gains on letting these poor countries use the free trade system, it will not change. The rich world is actually encouraging the poor world to use the free trade system, whilst almost every rich country in the world became rich due to protectionism. Every rich country opened their markets when they had the comparative advantages that was needed. Countries aren't given comparative advantages at birth, they have to create them, and you create them by having a strong and protected domestic market.

But I'm not trying to say that protectionism is the best system for todays international economy and markets. What I'm saying is that the only way to help these poor countries to rise, is to letting their domestic markets develop, without foreign influences. Free, open markets, without state interventions will not help them. Rivalry will not stimulate the third worlds market, and our leaders are well aware of that. Because, why would you, as Swedish champion, just compete in 100 meter dashes in Sweden, when you know that you are the best in the world at 100 meter dashes. That makes no sence. The same with the opposite. If you are the Nigerian champion in 100 meter dash, but you will end up at last place in the world competition, why would you compete internationally? It makes no sence to compete with the best when you are the worst.

Countries markets need to be carefully and thoughtfully cultivated and managed, such as all the rich countries markets has been.

When all countries has achieved that, the comparative advantages, first then, you can open your markets and join the international markets, but for as long as your country doesn't have any comparative advantages, you will fail at the international market.

Final sentences;

Countries can not gain anything on the international markets without comparative advantages, and to create comparative advantages you need to have a strong domestic market which will be a result of protectionism. When you reach that point, you can open your market for free trade - which is the best economic system, but only if everyone has comparative advantages. The international, open market works like this: You need to depend on others, and other needs to depend on you, then respectful and fair trade relations will be used, but as long as you depend on someone, but none on you, you will be abused.

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I hope this post has learned you something, and if you don't agree with what I'm saying, please debate this with me.

I'm sorry for all the grammar faults, but it's late, I've studied all day and I don't have the time to go through the whole text!

Ratburntro44 · Before February 2015

BillyP wrote:

Why don't we just ban people from being able to smoke in a public place?

Yes, exactly what I've said. Thank you.

Tako · Before February 2015

Ratburntr44 wrote:

BillyP wrote:
Why don't we just ban people from being able to smoke in a public place?
Yes, exactly what I've said. Thank you.

While that's great and all, that's not my main concern.

My main concern is their health, not mine. 50 years from now, I don't want to be the only healthy person in America, I want America to be a healthy country with me.

Which is why I'm for completely getting rid of it, however that may be accomplished.

[EDIT] TGT, I can tell you've put a lot of effort into that, but I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

Last edited by Tako (Sep 22 2011 8:22:50 pm)

Ratburntro44 · Before February 2015

Yes, I know, but clearly they don't. If they don't care about their health, why should we? Their problem.

Nevertheless, as I said, an educated society would have very few people smoking. Therefore, the focus should be on education.

Tako · Before February 2015

Solution identified.

Nao letz talkz aboutz economiez n' moneyz.

Tomorrow.

TheGreenTroll · Before February 2015

TakoMan02 wrote:

[EDIT] TGT, I can tell you've put a lot of effort into that, but I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

I understand.

I'll give you a really basic summary:

1. Free trade assume that you have a strong domestic market and some comparative advantages (that you are the best at something).

2. If you have a strong domestic market and some comparative advantages (like the rich world), you will gain from the free trade, but if you don't have a strong domestic market and some comparative advantages (like the third world), you will loose due to the free trade.

3. The leaders of the rich world encourages the third world to use free trade, even when they know that they are oppressing the poor countries domestic markets. The poor world will never get a strong domestic market due to todays free trade system. Without a strong domestic market, the jobless rates will be high, the country can't outrival anyone but only be outrivaled, the country will not have as high income as a country with a strong domestic market.

4. How do you get a strong domestic market and some comparative advantages? Well, you need to protect your domestic market from foreign states corporations and direct investments. The state must control the market, and prohibit foreign influences and rivalry. If a country with a weak domestic market allows rivalry, that will be the end for that market.

Japan and Finland had weak domestic markets, but due to high customary fees that protected the domestic markets of the countries, and due to prohibited direct investments and rivalry, the automobile industry of Japan and the electronics industry of Finland grew strong.

5. When your domestic market is strong, due to hardcore protectionism, you can open up your market and join the international market. Due to your strong domestic market, you will withstand the rivalry on the international market.

6. The leaders of the EU and the US knows about this, and they are trying to prevent the poor world from implementing the protectionism-system.

-------

This is just a "funny" sidenote: EU encourages the third world to use the free trade system, but when a third world country tries to export its goods to EU, they will have to pay extremely high customary fees. So EU is basically using the protectionism-system, to prevent the third world to rival on the EU-market, but at the same time, the EU is encouraging the third world to use the free trade system whilst they totally outrival the third worlds corporations on their own domestic markets.

It's capitalism all the way, boys and girls...

treejoe4 · Before February 2015

Third world countries are gonna be so screwed when the oil runs out And that video made my view on the goverment even worse than i thought of them, i thank you oh great one.

Last edited by treejoe4 (Sep 23 2011 9:41:05 am)

Tako · Before February 2015

"To preserve our independence we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. I place economy among the most important and republican virtues, and public debt is the greatest of the dangers to be feared. It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. [...] If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of their property until their children wake up homeless on the very continent their fathers conquered!" - Thomas Jefferson

TheGreenTroll · Before February 2015

TakoMan02 wrote:

"To preserve our independence we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. I place economy among the most important and republican virtues, and public debt is the greatest of the dangers to be feared. It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. [...] If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of their property until their children wake up homeless on the very continent their fathers conquered!" - Thomas Jefferson

He knew what he was talking about.

What makes me so insanely mad is that all of our leaders knows everything about this, but due to todays capitalism and the "hidden powerplay", they wont do anything against it. A revolution for democracy, strengthening of the national state and brotherhood, against capitalism, todays politicians and todays decadent balderdash that the mass media vomits upon us would be at it's place...

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