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TheGreenTroll

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Re: Let's talk about issues in society

Humanity, in my opinion, is going downhill and it has been. We have no morals or anything, it's quite pathetic. I hate it. I hate humanity. We're disgusting, filthy, and overall horrible. I'm a misanthrope, I guess.
There's so many things wrong, and no way of fixing them.

I agree, and in my opinion, humanities peak was during the Third Reich (except for the brutalization of minorities and contraction of free speech), or in Sweden during the 1930-1960.

Tako

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From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

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Re: Let's talk about issues in society

They most certainly have the right to tell you what to do with your body, because you're stupid.

Disabled guy x is stupid, hence, I tell him to eat nothing but cheese because he's stupid and I'm not.

Really, my intelligence and that of others has little to do with it.   It's my body regardless of how intelligent I am or the thing I want to do is.

^ You should've chosen the first half of my post, that wasn't as important.

<ampersand>

I just realized this has nothing to do with my original point.

Cigarette = Bad
Take away bad thing

This is logic for a 1st grader, but you've made it into a philosophical debate about your personal body and why we shouldn't control it.

Only Twipply~

BUT I WILL HUMOR YOU (mainly because if I stop now you'll just say I never knew what I was talking about to begin with ;D)
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I want you to defend yourself. Why shouldn't we get to decide what you put into your body?

I cannot think of a good enough reason myself.
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I have a better idea.

Why don't you tell me how to improve America in terms of cigarette usage? That will solve all disputes.

Last edited by Tako (Sep 21 2011 6:06:03 pm)

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

Greenzoid2

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Re: Let's talk about issues in society

About the education system:

Wow, if everything you're saying about the education system in USA, that's pretty bad D:

Sorry, I have nothing to add, other than kids are nothing like that in Canada.

Twipply

Guest

Re: Let's talk about issues in society

I want you to defend yourself. Why shouldn't we get to decide what you put into your body?

I cannot think of a good enough reason myself.
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The burden of proof is with the one making the claim, and that seems to be you.   However, since you asked, I guess I can try.

The main reason is ownership.   This body is mine and mine alone.   Without it, I wouldn't exist.   The same applies to each and every living thing I can think of.   Your thoughts about what I can and cannot do with it are of no value simply because it is not yours.   If I choose to do damage to my own body, then the decision is mine to make and the consequence are mine to bear.

If you want a more strict reason, perhaps read this and consider where your idea can lead.

Last edited by Twipply (Sep 21 2011 6:38:29 pm)

Tako

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From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

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Re: Let's talk about issues in society

You're up pretty late. 2AM.

I do respect people's body, but I'm also concerned in our future. What you're saying is: forget the future of America and let people feel comfortable.

You don't always have to be comfortable in life, and I'm afraid anything that has to do with removing cigarettes will not be a pleasant experience. Better be removing it entirely instead of giving motivational speeches, mindless campaigns, etc.

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

Pyromaniac

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Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 4,868

Re: Let's talk about issues in society

What.. The...Tako.. O.o

BUT..ahem. here I go.

What I got from those many.. many paragraphs, was that you are displeased with America. Now, I have to say, I despise people who complain about the state of things when they obviously haven't considered the bigger picture. The government in America.. With all its flaws included, IS in fact good, imo. Think about it. We have so many freedoms and most people take them for granted, complaining all the way. We have speech, religion, assembly.. The list goes on. Instead of focusing on the bad.. Think about how GOOD we have it here. Would you rather live in Iraq?

     As for school. I agree with what DK said on the first page. School WILL be useful in any job. Making sure you get paid correctly, and things like that. Although, i'll give you that most things after Algebra, (Geometry, Algebra 2, and on) I've found to be utterly useless.

    As for Obesity.. I'm with you all the way. I've never understood why somebody would stand by and let their body become a prison you can barely walk, much less run in. I mean srsly? Work out! Do SOMETHING.. Get your butt of your Xbox and do something!

But.. back to government.. I've found since I (and people my age/your age) cant impact it in ANY way.. Not to complain. I mean.. wait till you can at least DO something about it..

^My two cents.

Twipply

Guest

Re: Let's talk about issues in society

You're up pretty late. 2AM.

I do respect people's body, but I'm also concerned in our future. What you're saying is: forget the future of America and let people feel comfortable.

You don't always have to be comfortable in life, and I'm afraid anything that has to do with removing cigarettes will not be a pleasant experience. Better be removing it entirely instead of giving motivational speeches, mindless campaigns, etc.

I'm not saying to forget America's future, I'm saying to not remove rights and freedoms unnecessarily.   Education is likely the best way to try achieve what you want without doing so.   Sure, some people may not listen, but it's their right to do so.

2AM is the best time to be awake.

Pyromaniac

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Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 4,868

Re: Let's talk about issues in society

^I agree COMPLETELY

Tako

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From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

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Re: Let's talk about issues in society

What.. The...Tako.. O.o

BUT..ahem. here I go.

What I got from those many.. many paragraphs, was that you are displeased with America. Now, I have to say, I despise people who complain about the state of things when they obviously haven't considered the bigger picture. The government in America.. With all its flaws included, IS in fact good, imo. Think about it. We have so many freedoms and most people take them for granted, complaining all the way. We have speech, religion, assembly.. The list goes on. Instead of focusing on the bad.. Think about how GOOD we have it here. Would you rather live in Iraq?

No, no, no.

First of all, I'm not complaining about American government, education, etc, we're suggesting solutions to everyday problems.

I think that shoots down any accusations you have about about me being ungrateful, but I'll continue.

Second, what good comes from praising America? Nothing. I can say "America is a great place to live" practically over and over again, but when I'm done, what have we learned? Nothing. What have we solved? Nothing. It's the flaws that need to be removed before I will make a topic praising America, which is exactly what we're doing right now.

Third, take EE for example. It's a great game, right? Of course it is. If it wasn't, why would you be playing it? However, individual details are flawed, e.g. how often it gets updated & amount of bugs. Am I automatically ungrateful just because I suggest we need to update the game more often? I certainly don't think so.

Fourth, let's take EE for example again. Chris began this wonderful game, then did a horrible job with the upkeep. While having freedoms is wonderful, living in a country where the upkeep is horrible isn't necessarily a great place to live.

Fifth, as I've said in the very first paragraph, freedoms are not necessarily a good thing. You may see America as a great place to live, but that does not mean I see it the same way. Despite physical differences, Iraq and the US could be considered equal on how great it is.

You're up pretty late. 2AM.

I do respect people's body, but I'm also concerned in our future. What you're saying is: forget the future of America and let people feel comfortable.

You don't always have to be comfortable in life, and I'm afraid anything that has to do with removing cigarettes will not be a pleasant experience. Better be removing it entirely instead of giving motivational speeches, mindless campaigns, etc.

I'm not saying to forget America's future, I'm saying to not remove rights and freedoms unnecessarily.   Education is likely the best way to try achieve what you want without doing so.   Sure, some people may not listen, but it's their right to do so.

2AM is the best time to be awake.

Hooray for cohering!

Like I said in my ~third post on this thread, education truly holds great potential, doesn't it? However, no matter how many times we beat it into people's heads, there will always be a large amount of idiots who'll do it anyway.

I don't see anything wrong with just removing cigarette companies entirely. Are we controlling peoples' body? No. If you want your cigarettes, have them imported from Mexico.

Just don't support them, for the love of god. Since we can't make it illegal to smoke, let's just remove the cigarette providers, you know? It's like pseudo-banning something.

If I were to pseudo-ban junk food, I would remove all vending machines and selling them in gas stations, etc. Am I not allowing you to eat junk food? No. You very well can. But it's less convenient. That's the key. It needs to be a slow change.

And how do we perform a slower change? Make it less convenient, less convenient, less convenient, until you need to severely go out of your way to eat junk food, at which point it takes more effort to fulfill than it's worth. At which point, people stop eating junk food entirely. While at the same time being perfectly legal.

Fast change, on the other hand, often produces riots and outbreaks. Say, if I were to arrest anyone found eating junk food, people would claim it to be unjust. People would propose the argument you proposed earlier, about how it's not their place to control your body. Fast change would never work out (although I'm curious what people would do in response).

Back to what Pike and I were discussing in the Tinychat room, about changing the culture of America. First through "pseudo-banning" or "slow change" and the power of education, until we've produced a new culture; one that does not eat junk food. Just like how you don't eat fried squirrel for breakfast (well, I'm hoping you don't :0). This new culture of not eating junk-food will be healthier, and possibly smarter due to our actions.

But how difficult is this to perform? I can't imagine it being very. All you need is a state standard that requires students to watch some videos, take a few quizzes on why junk food is bad, explain possible plans on how to remove junk food from your lives, while stressing the severity along the way, combined with removing vending machines, followed by not selling junk food in the lunch line, and BAM! You have yourself a school that doesn't eat junk food, after about a year or so.

...And all of this is can happen without the public even knowing...

Last edited by Tako (Sep 21 2011 8:58:23 pm)

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

Twipply

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Re: Let's talk about issues in society

I don't see anything wrong with just removing cigarette companies entirely. Are we controlling peoples' body? No. If you want your cigarettes, have them imported from Mexico.

<Stuff>

I think it took me so long to come up with a solid opinion because a small part of me wanted you to be right.

The argument is essentially the same as before.   If I want to produce cigarettes, then who are you to tell me not to?   I'm doing no harm, injustice or wrong to anyone.   Yes, this idea is better than its predecessor, but the rights and freedoms you're stepping on have just moved to a different target.   I still can't agree to it.

supadorf24

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Joined: 2015-02-26

Posts: 2,675

Re: Let's talk about issues in society

Get ready for a rant.

The government is crap. Back in the day, our forefathers were asking, "How do we make this country a better place?"

Now we have politicians that are like, "Hurr durr they actually pay me to sit here and do nothing roflcopter."

In case you haven't noticed, nothing is getting done in Congress.

Regarding tobacco usage, I say keep it legal. The people that chose out of their free will to smoke probably weren't going to contribute anything to society anyway. If I put ten people in a room with two jars, labeled "RAT POISON" and "CANDY", respectively, the people that start eating the rat poison probably deserve to die anyway.

Now, don't get me wrong. There are obviously exceptions to this. Let's say someone has a learning disability or is mentally challenged. Obviously that's beyond their control and we should support them through life. I'm talking about people with no disabilities and the ability to think for themselves that were stupid enough to start smoking.

If people want to smoke, let them. It's made clear the smoking will take a number of years off your life throughout your education; if they still want to do it, then by all means do it.

I really have no complaints about education other than how expensive college is. If the government wants to encourage students to continue their education, then at least make it affordable. Simple, right?

Move north, Tako.

One of the of the reasons I can't wait till 2012, Obama made USA bullcrap, scratch that, crap.
I'm not proud to be a American now, and Obama might get a second term.

You think the economic mess we're in is Obama's fault? The major factor in the economic collapse was people borrowing money they didn't have, which had nothing to do with Obama. Obama has many good ideas and values that, in theory, would help the country. Unfortunately, Congress is impeding him.

I had some more points to make but I have to go now.

Pyromaniac

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Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 4,868

Re: Let's talk about issues in society

What good comes from complaining about American government? Can you DO anything about it? No...So..

Whats the point?

Ratburntro44

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Re: Let's talk about issues in society

People inherently like complaining, even if nothing were bad about it, people would still complain.

I'm not saying to forget America's future, I'm saying to not remove rights and freedoms unnecessarily.   Education is likely the best way to try achieve what you want without doing so.   Sure, some people may not listen, but it's their right to do so.

That's what I've been saying. Education is the best way to solve many problems. The country should be education focused, not politicians getting overpaid focused.

Tako

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From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

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Re: Let's talk about issues in society

What good comes from complaining about American government? Can you DO anything about it? No...So..

Whats the point?

Did you read my post that directly addresses this... at all?

We're not complaining, we're solving issues verbally. Will it actually solve anything? Probably not now, but what if I were to become a politician, eh? Plus, it doesn't hurt to be helpful.

If you don't like what we're doing then just don't post, simple.

The argument is essentially the same as before.   If I want to produce cigarettes, then who are you to tell me not to?   I'm doing no harm, injustice or wrong to anyone.   Yes, this idea is better than its predecessor, but the rights and freedoms you're stepping on have just moved to a different target.   I still can't agree to it.

You can't get rid of anything without stepping on peoples' freedoms. Really, you can't.

Plus, cigarettes can indeed be classified as a dangerous drug, and put up on a shelf along with marijuana, crack, etc. If the government were to say that, they would be 100% correct.

I like BillyP's idea about just banning them in public places. Although, I'm afraid that's already in effect.

What my concern is, is that America, eventually, will become a country where almost everyone smokes, and almost everyone has some disease, etc. That's not a bright future, I'm sorry.

I still stand by my idea of banning industries like Marlboro, etc, from producing any drugs. This is not stepping on people's rights, it's called CHANGE. Saying "not allowing me to build any more factories is stepping on my rights" is like saying "not only do I want to ruin America, but I'm also more important than the government".

Trust me, nobody will get their rights stepped on when it comes to banning factory-production. It is not written anywhere in the Constitution that you have freedom of construction. You have freedom to make your own choices, but not construction. In the UK it might be unjust to do such a thing, but in America building is not something you do freely.

Last edited by Tako (Sep 22 2011 1:33:59 pm)

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

BillyP

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Re: Let's talk about issues in society

Why don't we just ban people from being able to smoke in a public place? This benefits other people's health while keeping the production companies and smokers themselves mildly satisfied.

Banning the production and smoking of cigarettes completely and instantly will most certainly start riots nationwide - when one million addicts get their source of addiction taken away from them, there's a pretty huge chance that something bad is going to happen.

Last edited by BillyP (Sep 22 2011 8:08:57 am)

treejoe4

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Re: Let's talk about issues in society

I wasn't talking just about America, but global. Soon we're bound to get there though.

Read my post up above, the first on i posted on this topic

I did, but I don't really believe it.

Then you are scaring yourself, years ago people would have up to 10 kids, now the most is 4. Less and less kids will mean a population decrease or a steady level in the future. This is proven because its happening in germany where they encourage people to have kids over there. Population is increasing but you wont be affected that much, its in third worlds where people are having LOTS of kids. Britain has got to the point where our popualtion is barley rising because of births. The only way a country like america could have a big rise in population is if people start imagrating into america in vast numbers.

Tako

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From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

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Re: Let's talk about issues in society

Read my post up above, the first on i posted on this topic

I did, but I don't really believe it.

Then you are scaring yourself, years ago people would have up to 10 kids, now the most is 4. Less and less kids will mean a population decrease or a steady level in the future. This is proven because its happening in germany where they encourage people to have kids over there. Population is increasing but you wont be affected that much, its in third worlds where people are having LOTS of kids. Britain has got to the point where our popualtion is barley rising because of births. The only way a country like america could have a big rise in population is if people start imagrating into america in vast numbers.

Advancements in health mean people live longer, too.

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

treejoe4

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Re: Let's talk about issues in society

ye, i can look forward to a goverment pension in my 70s

Tako

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From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

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Re: Let's talk about issues in society

Oh! Let's talk about that program "Race to the Top"

Basic summary: Different states apply for this program. It's not really a program, either. It's a competition. The winner gets funding for their schools that need it the most. LOL.

Last edited by Tako (Sep 22 2011 1:44:51 pm)

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

supadorf24

Member

Joined: 2015-02-26

Posts: 2,675

Re: Let's talk about issues in society

What good comes from complaining about American government? Can you DO anything about it? No...So..

Whats the point?

Actually we can do something about it. A revolution. Of course, starting one and organizing one would be immensely difficult, but one could be organized through social media. That's how the one in Egypt started.

Are we not supposed to complain about anything? Complaining leads to change in some cases, and not being aware of these things that affect you every day is just ignorant.

Shift

Guest

Re: Let's talk about issues in society

Okay, we'll just go start a revolution.

"Hey Mom? I'm off to nuke our loved ones!"

supadorf24

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Joined: 2015-02-26

Posts: 2,675

Re: Let's talk about issues in society

No, I mean we could just drive our crap government out of Washington, not start a civil war.

treejoe4

Guest

Re: Let's talk about issues in society

IMO you dont have a goverment, its just controlled by greedy bankers. TGT had a good video about it.

Last edited by treejoe4 (Sep 22 2011 3:13:52 pm)

supadorf24

Member

Joined: 2015-02-26

Posts: 2,675

Re: Let's talk about issues in society

That's the problem; we can't just drive them out and expect to get on without some kind of government. That's actually the problem they're having in Libya now.

treejoe4

Guest

Re: Let's talk about issues in society

Heres the video, WATCH IT ALL ITS ENTERTAINING AND IMFORMATIVE
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU[/youtube]