Official Everybody Edits Forums

Tako

Member

From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

Website

Re: Religious Tolerance

2. Don't say that God defies science and therefore cannot exist. I believe I've made a flow chart before, but I'll make another one. http://i.imgur.com/3SYsX.jpg

It is a commonly held theory among the Abrahamic religions that science is optional. We atheists are simply advocating a movement that discourages this. Science is the universe, pure and absolute. You can't toss parts of it aside and claim to be logical and respectable.

Few atheists will say "god defies science and therefore cannot exist". Most will tell you "god defies science and therefore is improbable".

As I said before, nobody knows for certain. What it comes down to is: who is more logical? Advocate your claim. Tell me how theism is logical or probable.

---

Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

I'm just gonna say this, because I've seriously had enough with goddamn religion topics. Two points here.

1. If there's no god, everything that has ever happened was an accident. Every tiny part of a thought, every tiny neurological response, every tiny reaction happening in your brain right now, all coming together to form a full personality, set of beliefs, understanding, and thought, are all just chemical reactions that happened for no apparent reason.

2. Don't say that God defies science and therefore cannot exist. I believe I've made a flow chart before, but I'll make another one.

Who created God?   God just came out from nothing for no apparent reason?   God is able to create things out of thin air, for no apparent reason?   Not even that, as there was no air to start with apparently?  

I find it odd how thiests use the "things just happened and appeared for no reason" argument when that's the exact thing they beleive God was able to do.  

Also having a gigantic picture doesn't make you right.   Being louder doesn't make you more right.

For the sake of atheists in this topic don't make all of them seem like idiots. I'm going to use your exact words to prove your entire first part wrong, just replacing 'God' with 'EVERYTHING,' and changing 'theists' to 'atheists'

"Who created EVERYTHING?   EVERYTHING just came out from nothing for no apparent reason?   ...
I find it odd how Athiests use the "things just happened and appeared for no reason" argument when that's the exact thing they beleive EVERYTHING was able to do.   "

As for the part replaced by an ellipse, Yes.   Please refer to flow chart.
As for the last part, I didn't think that a giant picture would make me right. Trust me, I could've gotten a bigger picture. I did think that making a flow chart that is abided to always makes me right. Which it does. ('Right' being: THIS ARGUMENT IS GOING NOWHERE.)

@Takoman02: Replace every time you say 'atheists' with 'agnostics,' and you have what is actually true. Atheists believe that there is no god, somewhat vehemently, while agnostics don't believe in God. Believe that there is none=/=no belief. As for the last part about logic, please refer to flow chart, for which I had meant to say "God defies science and LOGIC and therefore cannot exist," and the same for the theist part.

Again. I'm not saying that God exists. I'm saying that we can never prove it either way.

treejoe4

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

Hey, the whole 'everything came from nothing' theory has started to be rejected by scientists for a while now. Multiple theories have came up about how the Universe was formed. Scientists don't like infinity, it gives them a headache and it never makes sense.

Stop being narrow minded fools and watch a documentary or two.

The Big Bang did happen, but it didn't come from nothing.

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

Hey, the whole 'everything came from nothing' theory has started to be rejected by scientists for a while now. Multiple theories have came up about how the Universe was formed. Scientists don't like infinity, it gives them a headache and it never makes sense.

Stop being narrow minded fools and watch a documentary or two.

The Big Bang did happen, but it didn't come from nothing.

Three answers here:

1. There's nothing
2. Something formed the big bang. What formed that?
3. As a response to #2, God.

treejoe4

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

The Universe and it's origin as we know it has came about through a bigger force than anyone could have possibly imagined, everyone who says they are theist or atheist is claiming something they don't know or understand.

Arceus64

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

Hehe, I remember that one.

Also:

If God is a perfect being..

Being perfect implies you are perfect at everything.

This also means being perfect at being imperfect.

But to be imperfect, you aren't perfect.

So it is impossible to be perfect.   If there is a god, he is not perfect.

That means he's also perfect at being perfect, so he's perfect. Or is he? Being perfect at everything doesn't make much sense to me, if he's perfect, he doesn't need to be perfect at everything, since he's already perfect. He's just perfect. Saying that doesn't imply anything.

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

The Universe and it's origin as we know it has came about through a bigger force than anyone could have possibly imagined...

That sounds a lot like a god. Think about it for at least a second.

D-rock2308

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

The Universe and it's origin as we know it has came about through a bigger force than anyone could have possibly imagined...

That sounds a lot like a god. Think about it for at least a second.

everyone who says they are theist or atheist is claiming something they don't know or understand.

Wait, so you're (xputnameherex) agreeing to what treejoe4 said by claiming what he told you not to claim right after he said that?

Nou

Member

Joined: 2015-02-24

Posts: 2,762

Re: Religious Tolerance

Hey, the whole 'everything came from nothing' theory has started to be rejected by scientists for a while now. Multiple theories have came up about how the Universe was formed. Scientists don't like infinity, it gives them a headache and it never makes sense.

Stop being narrow minded fools and watch a documentary or two.

The Big Bang did happen, but it didn't come from nothing.

Three answers here:

1. There's nothing
2. Something formed the big bang. What formed that?
3. As a response to #2, God.

This is a stupid discussion as you should all just stop it. It's impossible to know because a god would also not be able to just appear out of nothing and it's just no argument for anything. The lack of evidence for something is not proof for something else.

---

No u.

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

The Universe and it's origin as we know it has came about through a bigger force than anyone could have possibly imagined...

That sounds a lot like a god. Think about it for at least a second.

everyone who says they are theist or atheist is claiming something they don't know or understand.

Wait, so you're (xputnameherex) agreeing to what treejoe4 said by claiming what he told you not to claim right after he said that?

Nope. Saying that just because he says that what I said is a stupid response doesn't make it a stupid response. In fact, let's look up "supernatural"

Supernatural, first def. from dictionary.com
of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

Now lets look at what treejoe said:

t has came about through a bigger force than anyone could have possibly imagined...
Mhhmm.

EDIT:

Hey, the whole 'everything came from nothing' theory has started to be rejected by scientists for a while now. Multiple theories have came up about how the Universe was formed. Scientists don't like infinity, it gives them a headache and it never makes sense.

Stop being narrow minded fools and watch a documentary or two.

The Big Bang did happen, but it didn't come from nothing.

Three answers here:

1. There's nothing
2. Something formed the big bang. What formed that?
3. As a response to #2, God.

This is a stupid discussion as you should all just stop it. It's impossible to know because a god would also not be able to just appear out of nothing and it's just no argument for anything. The lack of evidence for something is not proof for something else.

If you read literally any of my other posts you would have seen why I'm here. For exactly that.

Last edited by xputnameherex (Nov 26 2012 5:05:46 pm)

Arceus64

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

This is a stupid discussion as you should all just stop it. It's impossible to know because a god would also not be able to just appear out of nothing and it's just no argument for anything.

Would it (god) possibly send something down to Earth (universe or whatever)? Some religions believe the god would send something down to represent itself.

The lack of evidence for something is not proof for something else.

I agree with this.

Nou

Member

Joined: 2015-02-24

Posts: 2,762

Re: Religious Tolerance

This is a stupid discussion as you should all just stop it. It's impossible to know because a god would also not be able to just appear out of nothing and it's just no argument for anything.

By that I mean, the big bang couldn't *just* appear, but neither can a god. How could something create itself? I'm talking about the very beginning of existence, not an apparition or avatar of a god.

---

No u.

treejoe4

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

You can't say it's a god, it's a thing, a force? I don't understand.

Arceus64

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

This is a stupid discussion as you should all just stop it. It's impossible to know because a god would also not be able to just appear out of nothing and it's just no argument for anything.

By that I mean, the big bang couldn't *just* appear, but neither can a god. How could something create itself? I'm talking about the very beginning of existence, not an apparition or avatar of a god.

That's something no one can or will ever figure out. Science, religion have no real explanation for that. We have to leave it as a mystery that will never be explained.

Zoey2070

Moderation Team

From: Shakuras

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 5,511

Re: Religious Tolerance

okay yes can we please stop arguing about the big bang i know it's an interesting thing and all but seriously you guys are getting crabby.

I'm just gonna say this, because I've seriously had enough with goddamn religion topics. Two points here.

1. If there's no god, everything that has ever happened was an accident. Every tiny part of a thought, every tiny neurological response, every tiny reaction happening in your brain right now, all coming together to form a full personality, set of beliefs, understanding, and thought, are all just chemical reactions that happened for no apparent reason.

Okay, so, there's this thing about science. It's the understanding of the everything around us. And also the nothing. And it's put into words that make sense to us.

The great thing about science is that new things are discovered daily. Things are proven wrong and fixed. (I don't think religion ever tries to be as correct as possible in a definite way. It's trying to make you say it's correct and believe it is regardless of whether or not it actually is.)

We can only guess about a lot of things. We know the how of a lot of things but not the why. How does aerobic respiration work? HELL IF I KNOW THERE'S A REASON I'VE GOT A C+ IN BIOLOGY. (Something something uhh wow I have a quiz on this tomorrow. Glycolysis.) Why does aerobic respiration happen? I googled that (and it was fairly misspelled because respiration is a difficult word) and it was only whats and wheres.

We don't know why the big bang happened. But we've got ideas on how. To my understanding, there was a bunch of energy and it exploded. And then it cooled down and bonded together and kept bonding and then eventually all this awesomeness was made. It's awe-inspiring. At the end of that documentary I watched several weeks ago, I recall something about a black hole eating everything and how that eventually a new universe could form or something. So we could be the billionth universe or the first. We'll probably never know for sure.

And since people would rather take a guess than just leave it blank (think of it as a test or something), people created religion. And things about religion have been disproved. And things about science has been disproved.
The difference is that science tends to be a lot more accepting of their flaws.

Since people are probably going to yell at me for this, have some examples that apply to both science and religion.
The universe revolves around the earth. (the universe being part of our solar system since this is like 1600s we're talking about) This was disproved by Copernicus and religion did not approve (which lead science to not approve it either because you'd be frowned upon and exiled for going against religion [in general])
I'm using blanket terms here, by the way. And also being a bit abstract.

(However, the transition between these two theories met much resistance, not only from Christian theologians, who were reluctant to reject a theory that was in agreement with Bible passages (e.g. "Sun, stand you still upon Gibeon", Joshua 10:12 - King James 2000 Bible), but also from those who saw geocentrism as an accepted consensus that could not be subverted by a new, unknown theory.) [1]

I'd hate to use Wikipedia as a source but meh.

Okay.
So.
And then people were all 'HOLY crap WHAT THE **** COLUMBUS U GONNAN FALL OFF DA PLANET U CRAZY MAN'
but he didn't. (and then died in exile for not getting to India but that has nothing to do with this)
And people were all 'OH crap SON THE WORLD IS A SPHERE'
and everyone was all. 'OH OKAY.'

And this is where I stop my post because for the last 3 paragraphs I've been thinking how much I want some cran-apple juice and also because I don't feel like getting the dramatization on the last one right and I don't even know where I was going with it. Point being, both science and religion have been wrong and still continue to be wrong on things but science is seemingly more open to new ideas.

orite i was also going to go somewhere else regarding the quote but then i decided to reprimand everyone so it's up to you to figure out what the quote has to do with the post because this really wasn't directed at one person i wonder if we have any clean cups i only got 4 hours of sleep and i am yawning and this post is a perfect example of how inconsistent i am (in typing and in thought) considering i did not take any breaks with this and this is my fifth edit to this last paragraph i hope i don't have to make any more

Last edited by Zoey2070 (Nov 26 2012 6:21:13 pm)

---

proc's discorb stylish themes for forums/the game
꧁꧂L O V E & C O R N꧁꧂   ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ
danke bluecloud thank u raphe    [this section of my sig is dedicated to everything i've loved that's ever died]
?          

krubby

Member

Joined: 2015-06-23

Posts: 1,190

Re: Religious Tolerance

Alright, this topic can be finished. No one can refute this point.

Without religion, this song would not exist. I would not want to live in a world without this song.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uiYp8xKjLM[/youtube]

AzurePudding

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

I'm just gonna say this, because I've seriously had enough with goddamn religion topics. Two points here.

1. If there's no god, everything that has ever happened was an accident. Every tiny part of a thought, every tiny neurological response, every tiny reaction happening in your brain right now, all coming together to form a full personality, set of beliefs, understanding, and thought, are all just chemical reactions that happened for no apparent reason.

2. Don't say that God defies science and therefore cannot exist. I believe I've made a flow chart before, but I'll make another one.

Who created God?   God just came out from nothing for no apparent reason?   God is able to create things out of thin air, for no apparent reason?   Not even that, as there was no air to start with apparently?  

I find it odd how thiests use the "things just happened and appeared for no reason" argument when that's the exact thing they beleive God was able to do.  

Also having a gigantic picture doesn't make you right.   Being louder doesn't make you more right.

For the sake of atheists in this topic don't make all of them seem like idiots. I'm going to use your exact words to prove your entire first part wrong, just replacing 'God' with 'EVERYTHING,' and changing 'theists' to 'atheists'

"Who created EVERYTHING?   EVERYTHING just came out from nothing for no apparent reason?   ...
I find it odd how Athiests use the "things just happened and appeared for no reason" argument when that's the exact thing they beleive EVERYTHING was able to do.   "

As for the part replaced by an ellipse, Yes.   Please refer to flow chart.
As for the last part, I didn't think that a giant picture would make me right. Trust me, I could've gotten a bigger picture. I did think that making a flow chart that is abided to always makes me right. Which it does. ('Right' being: THIS ARGUMENT IS GOING NOWHERE.)

@Takoman02: Replace every time you say 'atheists' with 'agnostics,' and you have what is actually true. Atheists believe that there is no god, somewhat vehemently, while agnostics don't believe in God. Believe that there is none=/=no belief. As for the last part about logic, please refer to flow chart, for which I had meant to say "God defies science and LOGIC and therefore cannot exist," and the same for the theist part.

Again. I'm not saying that God exists. I'm saying that we can never prove it either way.

That's odd of you to tell me to not make all atheists look like idiots when your chart did that exact thing.

We don't know where everything came from before the Big Bang.   There is a theory of the Big Crunch which would be the opposite of the Big Bang, where gravity pulls everything back into the biggest black hole possible.   So massive that it cannot hold all the matter of the universe inside it and explode into another Big Bang.   These would be cycles of the universe.

But if matter can't be created, how does it exist?   Well, we don't know that, but saying "some guy waved his hands and it appeared" is an extremely unlikely possibility.   People have used God as a reason for things they cannot explain through science for man years.   Not knowing how something happened doesn't mean God exists.

Tako

Member

From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

Website

Re: Religious Tolerance

Again. I'm not saying that God exists. I'm saying that we can never prove it either way.

You are right, but the claim that atheists say "God defies science and LOGIC and therefore cannot exist" is a wild misrepresentation of most atheists.

Very few atheists say that. I think you'll find that a very large majority of people who call themselves "Atheists" are actually agnostic-atheists. Your claim only holds true to the infinitesimally small amount of gnostic-atheists in the world.

And also, your first point is completely true, but I feel like you're trying to get something else out of it. Why is saying "everything is an accident" bad? It is incredibly beautiful and magnificent in the right eye.

---

Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

soccerfreak006

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

Again. I'm not saying that God exists. I'm saying that we can never prove it either way.

You are right, but the claim that atheists say "God defies science and LOGIC and therefore cannot exist" is a wild misrepresentation of most atheists.

Very few atheists say that. I think you'll find that a very large majority of people who call themselves "Atheists" are actually agnostic-atheists. Your claim only holds true to the infinitesimally small amount of gnostic-atheists in the world.

And also, your first point is completely true, but I feel like you're trying to get something else out of it. Why is saying "everything is an accident" bad? It is incredibly beautiful and magnificent in the right eye.

Nobody has real proof what actually happened, because neither theory has real evidence.

Tako

Member

From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

Website

Re: Religious Tolerance

Again. I'm not saying that God exists. I'm saying that we can never prove it either way.

You are right, but the claim that atheists say "God defies science and LOGIC and therefore cannot exist" is a wild misrepresentation of most atheists.

Very few atheists say that. I think you'll find that a very large majority of people who call themselves "Atheists" are actually agnostic-atheists. Your claim only holds true to the infinitesimally small amount of gnostic-atheists in the world.

And also, your first point is completely true, but I feel like you're trying to get something else out of it. Why is saying "everything is an accident" bad? It is incredibly beautiful and magnificent in the right eye.

Nobody has real proof what actually happened, because neither theory has real evidence.

Yes, you are right. Although I didn't really mention anything along those lines...

---

Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

Toby

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

For the sake of atheists in this topic don't make all of them seem like idiots. I'm going to use your exact words to prove your entire first part wrong, just replacing 'God' with 'EVERYTHING,' and changing 'theists' to 'atheists'

"Who created EVERYTHING?   EVERYTHING just came out from nothing for no apparent reason?   ...
I find it odd how Athiests use the "things just happened and appeared for no reason" argument when that's the exact thing they beleive EVERYTHING was able to do.   "

No scientifically literate person says everything came out of no-where randomly. We don't know what started The Big Bang, but we know that at one time the universe was dense and compressed and expanded out of that with a big explosion of space (Big Bang). The Big Bang doesn't aim to explain how the universe ultimately began. Secondly if when you say "came out of no-where" you mean life and evolution, you should learn evolution more because it's been proven on a microscopic level and evolution is also not random.

We only say "we don't know" when people ask what started the Big Bang - and most would say that, yes, there's no reason to our lives other than what we choose it to be - unlike many Thiests who say they know based on something humans made up a couple thousand years ago. We definitely don't say that something came from nothing, which is what Christians believe God was able to do (hypocrisy) to make our universe and also God himself defies this law because he must have come from somewhere too, who made God?

If you say God has always existed but then tell other people that saying the universe always existed that they're stupid then you've got some serious mental dissonance going on :3

Gamerbro64

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

I agree with Toby. YOUR ALIVE!

GKAbyss

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

It would be neat if someone formed a religion that follows all the findings of science, and explains why everything is here. This way all parts of it would be true regarding what we can currently explain, and it would allow people to believe that their lives have some sort of meaning. I wonder if it would be possible for a religion to be created at this time and become a prevalent belief around the world.
It should not matter that a person believes in a being that created everything. As long as a belief does not interfere with progress, I do not see a reason to end a belief as it is up to each person to believe what they want. Currently there is no need to know how everything was created. In fact, believing in a creator may be beneficial to society as on average, those who follow a religion live longer than those who do not. As long as there are limits places on how many children a family can have, an increase in life span will not have a large impact on the global population.

Last edited by GKAbyss (Nov 26 2012 8:34:27 pm)

soccerfreak006

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

You are right, but the claim that atheists say "God defies science and LOGIC and therefore cannot exist" is a wild misrepresentation of most atheists.

Very few atheists say that. I think you'll find that a very large majority of people who call themselves "Atheists" are actually agnostic-atheists. Your claim only holds true to the infinitesimally small amount of gnostic-atheists in the world.

And also, your first point is completely true, but I feel like you're trying to get something else out of it. Why is saying "everything is an accident" bad? It is incredibly beautiful and magnificent in the right eye.

Nobody has real proof what actually happened, because neither theory has real evidence.

Yes, you are right. Although I didn't really mention anything along those lines...

I was raging a bit.

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Religious Tolerance

Well thanks everyone for all the posts that are super long . Now I'm just gonna go through. This might have errors in grammar and stuff, deal with it. Also, when I say 'god,' it includes supernatural forces, and when I say atheist, it does not include Buddhists. (I know it technically does. Just imagine it because I don't feel like writing a lot)

@Zoey: Very annoying to decipher. . So here goes, trying to get every point you made in there: Yes, we might never know what's up with the universe. So? As for 'leaving it blank,' it is perfectly justifiable to accept something because there is no other way something can happen, due to conservation of matter (which only god can defy). God didn't say, "Hey guys. We revolve around the sun. Cool huh!" (This is brojesus). Your quote is kinda irrelevant, it wasn't God who said it. And everyone already knew the   earth was round, he only wanted a route to India. He had no fear except people.

@AzurePudding: Yes, I'm allowed to make atheists look bad when I'm arguing AGAINST them. Kinda what everyone does. Big Crunch doesn't make a difference, as proven by your last paragraph. Where the hell did that come from. And not knowing how something happened doesn't make God not exist either. Remember how I said I'm arguing that we're going nowhere? I wasn't just saying that. I meant it.

@TakoMan: I think you'd be surprised at how many people hate religion. For the last paragraph, an 'accident' doesn't have to be a bad thing. Just that it was never supposed to happen. Like on the SATs how they always use 'consequence' but most of the time it's in a good way.

@Toby: First off, a reminder that those aren't my words. They're someone else's. Secondly, your point about the beginning of the universe is...? Are you saying that nothing existed before the Big Bang/whatever happened? EVERYTHING came into existence at one point. And as for the part about God always existing, and I don't want to refer to this again. PLEASE. LOOK. AT. THE GODDAMN FLOWCHART. GOD DEFIES EVERYTHING BY DEFINITION.
There's no explanation for the supernatural, BY DEFINITION.