Half blocks + climbable

zioxei · 2016-05-09 00:43:36

I can climb chain/vines until I reach the end of half blocks...

sthegreat · 2016-05-09 00:59:25

zioxei wrote:

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT4uQnrHK … /giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/l41YrjeVY … /giphy.gif
I can climb chain/vines until I reach the end of half blocks...
http://img.prntscr.com/img?url=http://i … qlWZKU.png

uh, i think thats intended

Prodigy · 2016-05-09 01:07:36

Why complain about it? If you wanted staff to fix this then it would have taken longer for it to be released to the public.

N1KF · 2016-05-09 02:04:38

There is a reason for this. When the smiley is exactly between two blocks the game has a "bias" for one over the other. Try making a hole made of two sideways half-blocks, then place two coins below. The smiley always gets the right coin, but not the left coin, despite touching them equally.

St1ckS4m(EE)

Kirby · 2016-05-09 02:20:27

It's not because they're chain and vines, it's because it's the bottom and right side.

This legit can't be fixed I don't think, I'm pretty sure they'd have to rewrite the ENTIRE physics engine

St1ckS4m(EE)

CJMaeder · 2016-05-09 19:43:15

Kirby wrote:

It's not because they're chain and vines, it's because it's the bottom and right side.
This legit can't be fixed I don't think, I'm pretty sure they'd have to rewrite the ENTIRE physics engine

This would be the case.

Kaslai · 2016-05-09 20:16:12

Half blocks should just be removed. That would fix the issue entirely.

Gosha · 2016-05-09 21:27:02

Kaslai wrote:

Half blocks should just be removed. That would fix the issue entirely.

Right! also remove arrows and boosts, they are so glitchy

N1KF · 2016-05-09 21:54:19

Gosha wrote:

Kaslai wrote:
Half blocks should just be removed. That would fix the issue entirely.
Right! also remove arrows and boosts, they are so glitchy

I think half-blocks are glitchier than those two blocks you mentioned.

skullz17 · 2016-05-10 21:04:57

Wait I don't understand. How come in the top picture, the chains will carry you up 3 blocks as if you are touching them, but not the rest of the way? If you're on the right and not touching the chain, you shouldn't go up at all. If you're on the left and touching the chain, you should go up all the way. I can't see how it makes sense to only go up half way.

N1KF · 2016-05-10 21:12:00

skullz17 wrote:

Wait I don't understand. How come in the top picture, the chains will carry you up 3 blocks as if you are touching them, but not the rest of the way? If you're on the right and not touching the chain, you shouldn't go up at all. If you're on the left and touching the chain, you should go up all the way. I can't see how it makes sense to only go up half way.

Maybe the staff ended up creating bugs by trying to fix other bugs. There is no way out of these bugs without a major change in the physics engine.

N1KF · 2020-09-23 06:40:04

N1KF wrote:

Maybe the staff ended up creating bugs by trying to fix other bugs. There is no way out of these bugs without a major change in the physics engine.

Ok, scratch that. The year is 2020 and I flip-flopped on my opinions about EE physics for various reasons. (expect another huge topic.) I finally came up with a solution: when you collide with a half-block, your smiley will choose a "preferred" side for action block detection opposite of the direction you must recently moved.

For example, if you're moving right and hit a wall of sideways half-block with up arrows next to it, you'll go up the arrows ("preferring" the left side) even when you vertically leave the half blocks. The opposite would apply if you were moving left onto a wall that's facing right. This only affects the smiley when it's at the exact point between the two blocks, so if you move a tiny bit to either side the game will act normally.

This change would be completely unnoticeable in worlds without half-blocks, unless you're fiddling with the /teleport command. In the worlds that actually use half-blocks, this probably would affect very few of them.

St1ckS4m(EE)

peace · 2020-09-23 15:27:45

halfblocks work liek that becuase uhm you are 16x16 and there is like 1 pixel orso of you that is connecte dto blocks ect that one pixel if it touches a coin/spike/dot/vine/ect **** tirggers the action haflf blocks are splti in half yeah and that pixel is only 1 pixel in an even number of pixels

St1ckS4m(EE) · 2020-09-23 23:49:04

N1KF wrote:

N1KF wrote:
Maybe the staff ended up creating bugs by trying to fix other bugs. There is no way out of these bugs without a major change in the physics engine.
Ok, scratch that. The year is 2020 and I flip-flopped on my opinions about EE physics for various reasons. (expect another huge topic.) I finally came up with a solution: when you collide with a half-block, your smiley will choose a "preferred" side for action block detection opposite of the direction you must recently moved.
For example, if you're moving right and hit a wall of sideways half-block with up arrows next to it, you'll go up the arrows ("preferring" the left side) even when you vertically leave the half blocks. The opposite would apply if you were moving left onto a wall that's facing right. This only affects the smiley when it's at the exact point between the two blocks, so if you move a tiny bit to either side the game will act normally.
This change would be completely unnoticeable in worlds without half-blocks, unless you're fiddling with the /teleport command. In the worlds that actually use half-blocks, this probably would affect very few of them.

Well yes, but they would also have to work out with the sub-pixel hitbox on the center of the smiley's 16x16 square hitbox a bit until they get it figured out.

The sub-pixel hitbox on it is the main source of functionality for triggering secret and action blocks.
The larger one, being the 16x16 square hitbox, has the functionality for colliding with solid objects.

Fixing this would not only be very complicated, but it could also cause some of the worlds to break that relies on the offset collision detections and the bugginess of it.

N1KF · 2020-09-24 05:38:59

Sticksam wrote:

Fixing this would not only be very complicated, but it could also cause some of the worlds to break that relies on the offset collision detections and the bugginess of it.

I've been recreating EE code and the action block detection seems to be one of the simplest parts to work with. Just add two variables that check your direction using velocity, then if the smiley stops moving next tick, check if the smiley is halfway between a block, use the previous variables to figure out which direction to use, then adjust the detected action block by 1 in that direction (if the direction isn't already preferred by EE).

I don't know what kinds of worlds use half-blocks in that way, but here's an example of how I imagine it could look like.

In the above image you can only reach the trophy by moving upward from the half-blocks. With my proposal, the arrows would automatically push you to the trophy. While this makes it easier, it doesn't break anything. The result hardly changes, as with the original physics you can move even a tiny bit upward, just 7% of a block and the arrows will push you there.

Here's a different example:

Which hole is safer to go down? The left one of course! EE is already pushing it with those spike hitboxes. And that aside, there isn't any intuitive reason why only the left one works. Yes, there's a technical reason, but thinking about it like that just breaks immersion and makes the game harder to understand.

It's poor design from the world creator, so fixing it would arguably improve EE as a whole by discouraging poor level design. Maybe somebody can find an example of a well-designed minigame that heavily relies on this bug, but I have my doubts. Overall I think fixing it would help EE, and unlike most physics bugs it can be pretty easily found by accident or curiosity. This is only physics inconsistency I think should be fixed, and can't be otherwise fixed through graphics or presentation. Except maybe something involving low gravity, but that's for another time.

St1ckS4m(EE)

peace · 2020-09-24 07:45:01

N1KF then how would you make the lower image work? there is obviously only 1 pixel of oyur smiley reacting to diffrent action blcoks in an even amount of pixels

Gosha · 2020-09-24 09:13:09

The code behind the halfblocks is bad.
The original code introduced a lot of bugs, that's why some hacky workarounds were introduced
for example you can jump when you are standing on the edge, but not when you are on the halfblock

The general problem is that the amount of pixels in a block is even and the amount of pixels in a smiley is even too. that's why there is no clear "center" of the block, since it occupies 2 pixels in the middle.
It wasn't a problem in early ee, but with the introduction of half blocks everything has changed. The game has to pick some center, that's why you get only one coin here

Same with all action blocks.
Smiley can only interact with one block at a time.

It is essentially impossible to fix unless you drastically change the physics that might break some worlds (and lead to other glitches and bugs)
But half blocks aren't that bad.
The real deal is one-ways
They are extremely bad and don't work the same in different directions.
The reasons for that are the same. In early game the physics implementation worked for those versions, but not for newer ones.

a "reboot" eeu could've thought of that and create a good physics engine, but considering it already allowed for some very questionable decisions, it won't work out. (no auto-align, align only when you jump to halfblocks from below, no jump delay, no holding jump for multijump etc)

peace, Grilyon2, St1ckS4m(EE), KyYay

N1KF · 2020-09-24 10:00:58

Gosha wrote:

The real deal is one-ways
They are extremely bad and don't work the same in different directions.

What are you referring to here? I'm not aware of them working inconsistently and it could be useful info for my attempt at recreating EE.

I don't have the time to write a full response right now, so I'll just comment this: maybe people aren't as optimistic for EEU as I thought. There's been criticism of it but it's mostly been scattered and hard to find. This topic could branch off in so many directions wow.

Gosha · 2020-09-24 10:10:59

simple demonstration for you
you can jump out of here

but not out of here

edit: also did you know that there is no auto-alignment on the y-axies
meaning you can't do these

N1KF, St1ckS4m(EE), KyYay, Slabdrill

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#1 2016-05-09 00:43:36

Half blocks + climbable

#2 2016-05-09 00:59:25

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#3 2016-05-09 01:07:36

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#4 2016-05-09 02:04:38

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#5 2016-05-09 02:20:27

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#6 2016-05-09 19:43:15

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#7 2016-05-09 20:16:12

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#8 2016-05-09 21:27:02

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#9 2016-05-09 21:54:19

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#10 2016-05-10 21:04:57

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#11 2016-05-10 21:12:00

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#12 2020-09-23 06:40:04

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#13 2020-09-23 15:27:45

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#14 2020-09-23 23:49:04

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#15 2020-09-24 05:38:59, last edited by N1KF (2020-09-24 05:46:41)

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#16 2020-09-24 07:45:01

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#17 2020-09-24 09:13:09

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#18 2020-09-24 10:00:58

Re: Half blocks + climbable

#19 2020-09-24 10:10:59, last edited by Gosha (2020-09-24 10:13:20)

Re: Half blocks + climbable

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