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#1 2017-03-21 19:09:58

Abelysk
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Are you conservative or democratic?

#2 2017-03-21 19:19:37

N1KF
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Re: Are you conservative or democratic?

(You should use poal.me)

I find it odd that you say "conservative or democratic." Usually it's either on a conservative/"liberal" (not a big fan of how that term is used in modern U.S. politics) or republican/democrat scale. Was that intentional?

In U.S. both democrats and republicans bicker at each other and throw temper tantrums. That, in addition to all the stereotypes and expectations that comes from being in one of those parties means that being part of either party seems unappealing to me. I'm kind of indecisive on what political views are best, but I'm interested in the ideas of the Libertarian Party.

On a personal level, I have what you would probably consider "conerservative values." Of course politics shouldn't be about forcing your own personal views on others so that isn't part of my political thought.


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#3 2017-03-21 19:56:37

Raphe9000
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Re: Are you conservative or democratic?

Neither. I have my own independent beliefs.

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#4 2017-03-21 20:03:32

XxAtillaxX
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Re: Are you conservative or democratic?

Neither. It's fairly silly to exclude alternative parties, especially towards a community full of millennials.


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#5 2017-03-21 20:24:11, last edited by hummerz5 (2017-03-21 20:28:30)

hummerz5
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Re: Are you conservative or democratic?

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Neither. It's fairly silly to exclude alternative parties, especially towards a community full of millennials.

but "ive" and "ic" allow for ambiguity (specific party? or ideological leaning?). So in a way, you could be incredibly dissimilar compared to either and still be closer to one or the other.

someone might also bring up the whole "but what about social issues vs fiscal" or "what about the 2D representation instead of the 1D" and go down a different avenue

Raphe9000 wrote:

Neither. I have my own independent beliefs.

in line with what I just wrote, are you implying that all issues these parties might have discussed mean nothing to you? Otherwise they have made some statement you have agreed or disagreed with and can then reflect in- or out-group associations.

now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for "I'm not being pigeonholed into a binary system" but you can't say you have nothing to do with this political classification

N2KF wrote:

I find it odd that you say "conservative or democratic." Usually it's either on a conservative/"liberal" (not a big fan of how that term is used in modern U.S. politics) or republican/democrat scale. Was that intentional?

Good point. Also, some could be "more right" than conservatives or "more left" than democrats, pointing towards the need for some other descriptors (assuming we're just connecting these to the US parties)

Also, yes. Political polarization is what the bickering is called. bunch of old folks feeling young again by playing this game. A question: polarization has been increasing in American politics. -- is the appearance of Sanders and Trump indicative of the public revealing a greater polarization swing? (or am I exaggerating Trump's distance from centrism? )

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#6 2017-03-21 20:26:23

XxAtillaxX
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Re: Are you conservative or democratic?

hummerz5 wrote:
XxAtillaxX wrote:

Neither. It's fairly silly to exclude alternative parties, especially towards a community full of millennials.

but "ive" and "ic" allow for ambiguity (specific party? or ideological leaning?). So in a way, you could be incredibly dissimilar compared to either and still be closer to one or the other.

No, not really. There are people who lean left on social issues and right on economic issues, as with the libertarians.


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#7 2017-03-21 20:29:08, last edited by Raphe9000 (2017-03-21 20:29:52)

Raphe9000
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Re: Are you conservative or democratic?

hummerz5 wrote:
Raphe9000 wrote:

Neither. I have my own independent beliefs.

in line with what I just wrote, are you implying that all issues these parties might have discussed mean nothing to you? Otherwise they have made some statement you have agreed or disagreed with and can then reflect in- or out-group associations.

I just see no need to identify with a party. Both parties are corrupt in their own ways. I disagree with both in many ways, but I also agree with many points of each.

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#8 2017-03-21 20:35:09

hummerz5
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Re: Are you conservative or democratic?

Raphe9000 wrote:

I just see no need to identify with a party. Both parties and corrupt in their own ways. I disagree with both in many ways, but I also agree with many points of each.

I can agree with that, but if we accept that they're simple descriptors, you can be closer to one without identifying. I suppose that's not the point you or Atilla are making. To accept that you're closer to one than the other might be to "identify" with the party, which clearly you're both adverse to doing.

That's fair. Congress itself could probably get by with that sort of view. Not on the individual elections, I suppose. But here's a thing: will an alternative party not be "corrupt" as you say? The main 'corruption' I see would be the political games being played. Are you perhaps saying that someone who has a disagreeable view as you is corrupt? (probably not, but I should check). Anywho, folks who are elected to office often show up with their own agenda for their constituents but end up merging back with the majority to gain party benefits (whatever those are) -- in other words, would smaller parties be immune to that? Or perhaps more subject, as they're the smaller group?

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#9 2017-03-21 20:37:12

Bimps
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Re: Are you conservative or democratic?

N1KF wrote:

I'm kind of indecisive on what political views are best,

no you arent indecisive, you just know nothing about politics. not saying i do either i know damn well anything politically related i say means nothing until im at least 18. i have no experience with **** like that

N1KF wrote:

but I'm interested in the ideas of the Libertarian Party.

that explains everything


also change the strawpoll to include what atilla said pls

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#10 2017-03-21 20:39:28

XxAtillaxX
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Re: Are you conservative or democratic?

hummerz5 wrote:

To accept that you're closer to one than the other might be to "identify" with the party, which clearly you're both adverse to doing.

It's entirely dependent on which values you're attaching to either party, as is evident from the amount of corruption witnessed in both, you'd be doing yourself a disservice in attempting to identify with their contradictory agendas.


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#11 2017-03-21 20:57:43

N1KF
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Re: Are you conservative or democratic?

Bimps wrote:
N1KF wrote:

I'm kind of indecisive on what political views are best,

no you arent indecisive, you just know nothing about politics.

Why not both? When there is such a great divide on different views, it's hard to understand or decide on anything.


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#12 2017-03-21 21:13:00

Raphe9000
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Re: Are you conservative or democratic?

hummerz5 wrote:

That's fair. Congress itself could probably get by with that sort of view. Not on the individual elections, I suppose. But here's a thing: will an alternative party not be "corrupt" as you say? The main 'corruption' I see would be the political games being played. Are you perhaps saying that someone who has a disagreeable view as you is corrupt? (probably not, but I should check). Anywho, folks who are elected to office often show up with their own agenda for their constituents but end up merging back with the majority to gain party benefits (whatever those are) -- in other words, would smaller parties be immune to that? Or perhaps more subject, as they're the smaller group?

It depends on the party's motives. When I say corrupt, I mean that the party is more focused on power and self gain than it is the country's needs. The democrats, for example, will change their opinions for money. That helps them get into office (because businesses will support them) while also giving them a quick buck. A lot of political games are corruption, and that is sad because not playing those games get you nowhere most of the time. Really, any small party can be corrupt. At the same time, a party that I disagree with heavily could potentially not be corrupt. I believe that people should just focus on the country's needs instead of their own benefits. I still wouldn't sway to either party, however. I lean neither to one nor the other.

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#13 2017-03-21 21:41:56

hummerz5
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Re: Are you conservative or democratic?

Raphe9000 wrote:

It depends on the party's motives. When I say corrupt, I mean that the party is more focused on power and self gain than it is the country's needs. The democrats, for example, will change their opinions for money. That helps them get into office (because businesses will support them) while also giving them a quick buck. A lot of political games are corruption, and that is sad because not playing those games get you nowhere most of the time. Really, any small party can be corrupt. At the same time, a party that I disagree with heavily could potentially not be corrupt. I believe that people should just focus on the country's needs instead of their own benefits. I still wouldn't sway to either party, however. I lean neither to one nor the other.

Agreed. However, I wouldn't say that democrats are the only politicians that follow the money. I'd personally think they'd be equal.

What do you mean by "people"? The politicians should seek the benefits of the country? Or people should vote the benefits of the country? I was actually about to ask this somewhat: What should (or does?) fuel the opinions? Should I seek what lines my pockets? Should I seek what matches my religion? How much of my opinions are just copies of the next man's? What good are those opinions, then, in comparison with someone else's?

But that's a bit out there. Again, agreed. The party system has become more of an in-group out-group than just "we have similar ideas"

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#14 2017-03-21 21:44:53, last edited by Norwee (2017-03-21 21:46:52)

Norwee
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Re: Are you conservative or democratic?

I guess if you put me in simple American terms i would be closer to the "Democrats", but i disagree with them on certain issues as well. From a American perspective i'm so far left you could say i am Lenin incarnate.
But i still laugh at the stupidity of the "far left" in my own country. Right now they just proposed for Norway to urge NATO to remove all atomic weapons, while countries like Russia would obviously keep them. Most stupid suggestion ever lol.


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