Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

N1KF · 2017-02-21 19:07:44

By reboot, I mean completely starting over. No worlds, accounts, graphics, or programming is moved over. The only thing that remains are the memories, community, and recorded history. How would you feel about that, and what could be improved by the reboot?

21Twelve, Hostage, mrjawapa, Jesse, mutantdevle, Dencc

XxAtillaxX · 2017-02-21 19:10:45

Usernames should be reserved for accounts that have been active within the last n years.

Raphe9000, kubapolish, mutantdevle, TaskManager, Dencc, Jesse, Krosis

Raphe9000 · 2017-02-21 19:11:53

As someone who identifies as an old player, I'd hate to see all that lost. I'd rather there be an incentive to start over.

Gosha · 2017-02-21 19:14:30

here

Tomahawk · 2017-02-21 19:19:23

Reboots/remakes don't work. They don't get enough players to be worth playing.

mutantdevle

XxAtillaxX · 2017-02-21 19:23:03

Tomahawk wrote:

Reboots/remakes don't work. They don't get enough players to be worth playing.

They are run incompetently, just as the main game itself.

If the game were taken over by Chris, especially on a new slate, it would be way more successful.
It's embarrassingly pathetic how unsuccessful the game remains in the many hands it's been passed down to.

Let it sink in that Chris's hexagon game he made in a week has been way more successful than Everybody Edits has in the last 6 years.

kubapolish, Jorc, Kentiya, Akatsuk1, Jesse

N1KF · 2017-02-21 20:03:23

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:
Reboots/remakes don't work. They don't get enough players to be worth playing.
They are run incompetently, just as the main game itself.
If the game were taken over by Chris, especially on a new slate, it would be way more successful.
It's embarrassingly pathetic how unsuccessful the game remains in the many hands it's been passed down to.
Let it sink in that Chris's hexagon game he made in a week has been way more successful than Everybody Edits has in the last 6 years.

How would Everybody Edits become more successful in the scenario you describe? I'm curious, because I don't really know much of what could be done to save this game.

Moukdaboss · 2017-02-21 20:47:34

I would love a reboot of ee. But not now. I think it would be best to happen when unity comes out (if it does) If it gets released to steam i think this would be the best idea to gain players and it would be fun imo. But nou would probably be like but my campaigns!!!!

kubapolish

kubapolish · 2017-02-21 21:23:11

Moukdaboss wrote:

I would love a reboot of ee. But not now. I think it would be best to happen when unity comes out (if it does) If it gets released to steam i think this would be the best idea to gain players and it would be fun imo. But nou would probably be like but my campaigns!!!!

oh, this gets me thinking. it would be unfair for people that bought gems before reboot, so it would be fair to give players these gems back after reboot (and maybe gems gotten from daily rewards too?).

Raphe9000, Moukdaboss, Akatsuk1

Evilbunny · 2017-02-21 22:41:01

I think it would be the final nail in EE's coffin, many players would just leave.

Raphe9000, hummerz5, Hostage, Akatsuk1

Raphe9000 · 2017-02-21 22:41:47

Evilbunny wrote:

I think it would be the final nail in EE's coffin, many players would just leave.

Including me.

Anyway, it's unfair to take away the things people paid and/or worked hard for.

Akatsuk1, Grilyon2

XxAtillaxX · 2017-02-21 22:42:10

Evilbunny wrote:

I think it would be the final nail in EE's coffin, many players would just leave.

what players?

kubapolish, Hostage

Raphe9000 · 2017-02-21 23:12:32

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Evilbunny wrote:
I think it would be the final nail in EE's coffin, many players would just leave.
what players?

All 2 of the game's players. XD

Moukdaboss · 2017-02-22 23:43:42

kubapolish wrote:

Moukdaboss wrote:
I would love a reboot of ee. But not now. I think it would be best to happen when unity comes out (if it does) If it gets released to steam i think this would be the best idea to gain players and it would be fun imo. But nou would probably be like but my campaigns!!!!
oh, this gets me thinking. it would be unfair for people that bought gems before reboot, so it would be fair to give players these gems back after reboot (and maybe gems gotten from daily rewards too?).

yeah, good point

shadowda · 2017-02-23 00:54:09

sounds like garbage. most of the remakes of ee had bad graphics and simply wiping the slate would kill ee.

mrjawapa · 2017-02-23 02:26:28

N1KF wrote:

By reboot, I mean completely starting over. No worlds, accounts, graphics, or programming is moved over. The only thing that remains are the memories, community, and recorded history. How would you feel about that, and what could be improved by the reboot?

I don't know if much would change. It would probably do more harm than good.

It could be a good opportunity to fix some bugs, but also create new ones. The entire back end of the game could be redone to be up-to-date, less cluttered, etc. Not sure any of that would matter, though. There would be a lot of people who would leave. I'd be fairly upset to have my account wiped clean. 5 years of work (buying shop items, making worlds) -- gone. But at the same time, I don't even play the game anymore. At one point I was only getting shop items, not joining worlds. Now, I don't even do that.

I agree with Atilla, that names would need to be reserved. At the very least the "famous" usernames would need to be protected.

Interesting scenario.

EDIT:

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Let it sink in that Chris's hexagon game he made in a week has been way more successful than Everybody Edits has in the last 6 years.

That's kind of apples-to-oranges though.

His hexagon game is something simple that anyone can play, just about anywhere. The same cannot be said about Everybody Edits. You can't play EE while sitting in a waiting room. And, a lot of time is required in EE to accomplish pretty much anything.

Even when Chris was managing EE, it didn't accumulate as much income as his hexagon game.

Badoosh, Xfrogman43, Pingohits

N1KF · 2017-02-23 04:01:06

MrJaWapa wrote:

XxAtillaxX wrote:
Let it sink in that Chris's hexagon game he made in a week has been way more successful than Everybody Edits has in the last 6 years.
That's kind of apples-to-oranges though.
His hexagon game is something simple that anyone can play, just about anywhere. The same cannot be said about Everybody Edits. You can't play EE while sitting in a waiting room. And, a lot of time is required in EE to accomplish pretty much anything.
Even when Chris was managing EE, it didn't accumulate as much income as his hexagon game.

I'm not sure I exactly agree. I think one of the reasons why the classic Everybody Edits became so popular is because people could quickly join an open world and have some quick fun. The simpler something is, the more people can understand it and enjoy it. The more complicated you make something, there will be less fans, but they will be more dedicated fans. Right now, we don't have many players, and not many of those are actually "dedicated" anymore (and while I'm dedicated to the community, I've barely done anything for the actual game). We need something that looks simple, but has lots of depth for those who look into it. Half of the blocks in the game look simple, but have no depth, as they add very little substance to the game or metagame.

If this game ever rebooted, all the filler junk (mostly that of MrShoe) should be cleaned up. I'd like to just see the most basic packs we have now (basic, brick, etc.), a few themed ones (such as nature), and many of the action blocks we already ave. Some of the blocks we have now add nothing but very small visual differences. For example, compare the white basic block to the white metal "outer space" block. Why do we need them both? They're both white metal blocks with bolts on the corners. And that's not even looking into the amount of grey brick blocks (bricks, Halloween 2011, prison, marble, etc.) we have. The more blocks we give the player, the more oddly specific they'll get. And the more we'll rely on buying meaningless virtual materials than using our imaginations to fill those small gaps.

I think complexity is one of the two main reasons this game has fallen from its classic state, along with the neglect from Cape Copenhagen.

Kentiya

dcomet · 2017-02-23 04:19:03

Just let the game be.
It's going to get better.
You can't just reboot a game because it's a complex mess.
Besides, if you really want a simple game, don't use the complex stuff.

Grilyon2

Badoosh · 2017-02-23 04:56:24

N1KF wrote:

I'm not sure I exactly agree. I think one of the reasons why the classic Everybody Edits became so popular is because people could quickly join an open world and have some quick fun. The simpler something is, the more people can understand it and enjoy it. The more complicated you make something, there will be less fans, but they will be more dedicated fans. Right now, we don't have many players, and not many of those are actually "dedicated" anymore (and while I'm dedicated to the community, I've barely done anything for the actual game). We need something that looks simple, but has lots of depth for those who look into it. Half of the blocks in the game look simple, but have no depth, as they add very little substance to the game or metagame.
If this game ever rebooted, all the filler junk (mostly that of MrShoe) should be cleaned up. I'd like to just see the most basic packs we have now (basic, brick, etc.), a few themed ones (such as nature), and many of the action blocks we already ave. Some of the blocks we have now add nothing but very small visual differences. For example, compare the white basic block to the white metal "outer space" block. Why do we need them both? They're both white metal blocks with bolts on the corners. And that's not even looking into the amount of grey brick blocks (bricks, Halloween 2011, prison, marble, etc.) we have. The more blocks we give the player, the more oddly specific they'll get. And the more we'll rely on buying meaningless virtual materials than using our imaginations to fill those small gaps.
I think complexity is one of the two main reasons this game has fallen from its classic state, along with the neglect from Cape Copenhagen.

I agree about the complixity being a big issue with EE. But I think you underestimate the problem with action items.

EE used to be about momentum, physics, and collecting coins. There were also one-ways and portals that added a new dimension to blocks.
Now we have pointless effects that are broken like curse and zombie. Checkpoints and spikes when they serve little difference to portals, and death doors are seldom used outside death-grinding levels.
And then there's invisible portals and arrows, which are often used where normal arrows and portals should be.
Teams are poorly implemented and what was a potential game feature is just fluff.
Before players get used to the controls of EE, we now have to throw effects at them, and they must learn jumping new heights, speed, low gravity, flying, not dying on spikes, etc.
Boosts are completely broken and are inconsistent to the rest of the physics in the game. Many levels require you to hold down on upwards facing boosts to win. This isn't told to anyone, anywhere. You just gotta know your bugs.
Then there's the fact that you have to hold down and up repeatedly to get out of 1 block of water.
Here's something else too.

Everybody edits used to get physics engine updates, but now that those are gone, the game's become clunky and dated. It's an embarrassment that the promo video can no longer boast a powerful physics engine. It's all so inconsistent, new players complain that the controls are slippery. This will never change with the staff's current direction.

There are so many inconsistencies in the game steepens the learning curve. I haven't even gotten into the crappy interface, crappy block designs, crappy campaigns. It all needs cleaning up. Maybe the only way to save the game is to do a semi-reboot, and pray that the learning curve is fixed so new players can replace and exceed the stubborn players who quit. I don't like these chances, but the other option would be to let the game continue this decline.

N1KF, mrjawapa, Onjit, Hostage, Kentiya

N1KF · 2017-02-23 05:49:36

Badoosh wrote:

EE used to be about momentum, physics, and collecting coins. There were also one-ways and portals that added a new dimension to blocks.
Now we have pointless effects that are broken like curse and zombie.

I'd argue that the zombies were a welcome addition, because they created a completely new experience in Everybody Edits. Never did I feel quite the adrenaline rush when playing this game I got from running away from other players to find a safe zone. While zombie worlds (unfortunately) don't seem to be very popular anymore, I enjoyed them while they were.

As for curses, I haven't really seen that much done with their actual original purpose (tag). They are, however, often used as timers. You can't really do that otherwise.

I'm not against adding complex features altogether, as evidenced by my Phantom Smiley suggestion. What I am against, however, are suggestions that create more complications than needed. This is why in that topic, I emphasized the amount of potential that couldn't otherwise be added without adding several other complex features. I'm not sure if you agree or not, but I'd like to see Everybody Edits become a place where you can play a large variety of different world types without too much clutter and too many complications. And as a side note, yes, I agree that they're "broken" in the sense that they're buggy at least.

Checkpoints and spikes when they serve little difference to portals, and death doors are seldom used outside death-grinding levels.

That's a fair point, but it could be argued that checkpoints make the game more streamlined. And having a death counter is quite nice in my opinion.

And then there's invisible portals and arrows, which are often used where normal arrows and portals should be.

If anybody's unfamiliar, there was a contest to prove that invisible portals were actually useful because they were originally just an exploit. There were ten horror-themd worlds to prove that they allowed for creative world ideas...but then they rarely got used for their intended purpose. Invisible arrows are slightly better, I argue, since they are visible when touched, making them more newbie-friendly. But more annoying, if they're used inappropriately.

Teams are poorly implemented and what was a potential game feature is just fluff.

I agree. They're pretty much a glorified switch system but much less useful. How would you suggest teams be improved, though, without overly complicating the game?

Before players get used to the controls of EE, we now have to throw effects at them, and they must learn jumping new heights, speed, low gravity, flying, not dying on spikes, etc.

Aside from competitive worlds and metroidvania worlds (where you have to upgrade your skills to reach other areas), I agree that many of the physics effects are pretty useless. The multi-jump and flying effects do add new mechanics to gameplay though.

Boosts are completely broken and are inconsistent to the rest of the physics in the game. Many levels require you to hold down on upwards facing boosts to win. This isn't told to anyone, anywhere. You just gotta know your bugs.

Boosts, along with half-blocks should have been kept in beta for a lot longer. They're really buggy and should have never gotten into the main game at their current state.

Everybody edits used to get physics engine updates, but now that those are gone, the game's become clunky and dated. It's an embarrassment that the promo video can no longer boast a powerful physics engine. It's all so inconsistent, new players complain that the controls are slippery. This will never change with the staff's current direction.

I'm not sure I agree. There was a topic about that a while ago, and it would throw lots of old levels down the drain. Then again, a reboot would, too.

There are so many inconsistencies in the game steepens the learning curve. I haven't even gotten into the crappy interface, crappy block designs, crappy campaigns. It all needs cleaning up.

You're right. Perhaps I'll write more about the graphics/interface in another post.

Maybe the only way to save the game is to do a semi-reboot, and pray that the learning curve is fixed so new players can replace and exceed the stubborn players who quit. I don't like these chances, but the other option would be to let the game continue this decline.

It's a tough conundrum; that's for sure!

Kentiya, Akatsuk1

mrjawapa · 2017-02-23 07:11:34

You're right, the game is fairly complex. That definitely chases players away, and discourages new players from coming in. There's a steep learning curve for a game that should be very simple.

I'd say the length of time it takes to get anything from the shop makes the game more complicated. It's odd that new players start off with next-to-nothing, despite many requests to give them more from the beginning. I'd also point towards the block selection menu as being an issue. That's the reason I quit playing altogether. Didn't feel like it was necessary to go on a scavenger hunt when I needed block. Taking similar looking blocks and bloat packs out wouldn't help with that disaster of an idea. My tabs have tabs.

The chat commands are ridiculous. When you only have a few, and each one only requires a few parameters, then they're fine. But holy ****. My only thought on this is it's stupid. There are commands for things that are in the UI.

/clearchat
/getpos
/inspect
/mute
/pm
/reportabuse,/report,/rep
/roomid
/spectate,/spec
/unmute

Owner command names:
/bgcolor
/clear
/cleareffects,/ce
/forcefly
/givecrown
/giveedit,/gedit,/ge
/givegod
/hidelobby
/kick
/kickguests
/kill
/killall
/listportals
/loadlevel
/name
/removecrown
/removeedit,/redit,/re
/removegod
/reset
/resetall
/resetswitches
/respawnall
/setteam
/teleport
/visible

All the features that are being added are killing the creativity in EE. In the past, players had to be creative and think outside the box to make ideas work: mechanisms and bots.

"You're resistant to change."
I see this a lot. There's a difference between being resistant to change, and not wanting to be forced away from something because you couldn't understand it.

omg it's 1am

N1KF

N1KF · 2017-02-23 07:17:27

Changed title of the topic to reflect how the conversation has drifted.

Hostage · 2017-02-23 09:09:38

we should let ee die

Grilyon2

Norwee · 2017-02-23 09:41:56

The simpler version must have been better seeing as we are basically the niche of the niche for still playing this game after all the changes.

Onjit

Gosha · 2017-02-23 09:56:02

Block ID is just a mess
this is how ids for decorations go {... 497, 498, 499, 1500, 1501}
backgrouns are in range of 500 and 999
there are some holes in the ids

It would be cool block types to have it's own ids.

Like:
(0)Blocks blocks ids: {0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ..}
(1)Action blocks ids: {0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ..}
(2)Decoration blocks ids: {0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ..}
(3)Background blocks ids: {0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ..}

So when you want to send a block to the server you need
Connection.Send("b", Type, x, y, id, stuff)
instead of
Connection.Send("b", Layer, x, y, id, stuff)

so if you want to place air background block at 1x1 you need
Connection.Send("b", 3, 1, 1, 0, null)
if you want to place air foreground block at 1x1 you need
Connection.Send("b", 0, 1, 1, 0, null)
if you want to place any action block at 1x1 you need
Connection.Send("b", 1, 1, 1, id, null)

Emma333, mrjawapa, Xfrogman43

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#1 2017-02-21 19:07:44, last edited by N1KF (2017-02-23 07:20:37)

Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#2 2017-02-21 19:10:45

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#3 2017-02-21 19:11:53

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#4 2017-02-21 19:14:30

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#5 2017-02-21 19:19:23

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#6 2017-02-21 19:23:03

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#7 2017-02-21 20:03:23

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#8 2017-02-21 20:47:34

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#9 2017-02-21 21:23:11

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#10 2017-02-21 22:41:01

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#11 2017-02-21 22:41:47

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#12 2017-02-21 22:42:10

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#13 2017-02-21 23:12:32

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#14 2017-02-22 23:43:42

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#15 2017-02-23 00:54:09

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#16 2017-02-23 02:26:28, last edited by mrjawapa (2017-02-23 02:32:06)

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#17 2017-02-23 04:01:06

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#18 2017-02-23 04:19:03

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#19 2017-02-23 04:56:24, last edited by Badoosh (2017-02-23 05:02:40)

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#20 2017-02-23 05:49:36

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#21 2017-02-23 07:11:34

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#22 2017-02-23 07:17:27

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#23 2017-02-23 09:09:38

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#24 2017-02-23 09:41:56

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

#25 2017-02-23 09:56:02, last edited by Gosha (2017-02-23 12:28:40)

Re: Is EE too complex/messy? How would you feel about a fresh reboot?

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