Trolling = Hacking?

capasha · 2016-12-07 20:14:14

I got banned for hacking. I have only used the account with EEditor what I remember.
But I have also used illegal tools too. So this ban is correct added.

modedit:
For clarity, this topic was originally making the statement that cap was banned for trolling or using EEditor. This was a misunderstanding, and has since been clarified as actual hacking through other tools.

XxAtillaxX, kubapolish, Jorc, Dencc, Weirdoverse, Master1, Pingohits, Krosis, Prodigy, WMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWM, jonhvictor2004sonic, MartenM, alex5555, Jedpogi

hummerz5 · 2016-12-07 20:21:46

edit:

my opinion does a 180. this topic is now about cap being banned for legitimate hacking, which is a "please PM the mods not make a thread" scenario.

explanation

Krosis

capasha · 2016-12-07 20:45:36

hummerz5 wrote:

a good thread, a good discussion.
What is hacking? Frankly this falls under malicious use of bot, which is probably the main intent of calling someone out for "hacking"
This is a good PSA to make, though. Not for your bot, but for the general idea of all bots that might somehow place blocks... you almost have to have the consent of everyone in the room then. Room owners might be a special case, but this hasn't really been outlined.
tl;dr: bots are illegal? maybe?

Also it's easy to detect EEditor. And the most bots too.
If the owner doesn't want bots in his room. It could be an option to disable them from joining the room.
EEditor is meant to make worlds offline. But can also be abused too.

So please add an option to the room so people can disable bots. Instead of banning us that are bored and want to troll.
It would be better if the option is enabled by default. For new users that don't even know what a bot is.

Krosis

drunkbnu · 2016-12-07 20:48:04

There is no solid way of detecting a bot.

Quote by NVD.

Weirdoverse · 2016-12-07 20:51:16

HG wrote:

There is no solid way of detecting a bot.
Quote by NVD.

if you will ever meet NVD tell him that he is wrong
bots are usually static players, if you kill them with spikes, the username stays but the smiley is gone

capasha · 2016-12-07 21:00:25

Weirdoverse wrote:

HG wrote:
There is no solid way of detecting a bot.
Quote by NVD.
if you will ever meet NVD tell him that he is wrong
bots are usually static players, if you kill them with spikes, the username stays but the smiley is gone

This can be bypassed. The most things can be bypassed. But it's up to the people that write the bot and knowledge how to bypass it.
I have choosed to not bypass such things for EEditor. Which mean can be detected.

gkaby · 2016-12-07 21:12:57

@weirdoverse

if someone is sitting in the world w/o a bot (aka as themselves) does the spike thing work?

also does /inspect work on things that bots do?

capasha · 2016-12-07 21:15:40

gkaby wrote:

@weirdoverse
if someone is sitting in the world w/o a bot (aka as themselves) does the spike thing work?
also does /inspect work on things that bots do?

Inspect works when bot place blocks. But some bot just uploads a little bit and then left.
The people would see what the bot placed but can't kick them.

I was thinking that this would be "hacking". But then I know that other people that troll worlds leave because they don't want to be kicked.

Era · 2016-12-07 22:20:26

Weirdoverse wrote:

bots are usually static players, if you kill them with spikes, the username stays but the smiley is gone

Yeah i only need to add like 2 lines of code to make the bot actually die.

bots can be made pretty undetectable, however if given an option to identify as a bot i think that most people would choose this and add this to default in any closed source bots.
so you would need to be able to write one yourself if you absolutely feel the need to ruin someone day

hummerz5 · 2016-12-07 22:32:48

HG wrote:

There is no solid way of detecting a bot.
Quote by NVD

Originally this post was a ramble, but here you go.

Foremost: any attempt you make to generalize the requirements to determine whether a player is a bot or person can be equally generalized by the programmer. Spikes? You could program the bot to kill itself. Fancy physics, then spike? Bots can handle that, too. Want to make the user do a mini? Bots could record the movements of an actual user. I realize telling you this is redundant, but I feel like stating it.

However, bots can be determined by the very reasons they exist. If the bot places blocks outside of its expected viewing range. If the bot moves based on rules not accepted by regular physics. If the bot attempts to claim some attribute that isn't expected. Then you can get a relatively confident idea that the player is a bot. HOWEVER, that's unreliable because some folks just plain lag. I think.

azurepudding · 2016-12-07 22:38:28

I think bots could be considered hacking but as hummerz5 said above, that was malicious use. Non-malicious use should not be bannable, I think.

capasha wrote:

So please add an option to the room so people can disable bots. Instead of banning us that are bored and want to troll.

I find it odd that you're making this case as you are the offender here. Here is another option: don't troll. It shouldn't be up to the admins to fix your poor and shameful behavior. I'd love to see more features to improve a world's security, though.

Find a more productive use of time if you're bored enough to ruin others' creations. Being bored is not an excuse to bully and destroy.

XxAtillaxX · 2016-12-07 22:55:35

azurepudding wrote:

I find it odd that you're making this case as you are the offender here. Here is another option: don't troll. It shouldn't be up to the admins to fix your poor and shameful behavior. I'd love to see more features to improve a world's security, though.
Find a more productive use of time if you're bored enough to ruin others' creations. Being bored is not an excuse to bully and destroy.

I agree, it shouldn't be up to the admins to fix non-rulebreaking behaviour - it should be left to the world owners.

It would be incredibly stupid and immature to ban trolling.
The only security required is the giveedit command, which has worked wonders for the people intelligent enough to use it.

Krosis · 2016-12-07 22:56:19

HG wrote:

There is no solid way of detecting a bot.
Quote by NVD.

If so, how did ultrabass and nvd managed to change all bots names on EE2 to X.YOURNAME and appear on green?

XxAtillaxX · 2016-12-07 23:00:25

There isn't any way to truly prevent bots, it can always be evaded.
I had injected packets into the socket directly from the Flash client years ago, meaning I'd effectively never get caught by physics detection.
If that's too difficult, others could merely modify the Flash client, allowing them interface with a separate application to send messages.

drunkbnu · 2016-12-07 23:00:51

Krosis wrote:

HG wrote:
There is no solid way of detecting a bot.
Quote by NVD.
If so, how did ultrabass and nvd managed to change all bots names on EE2 to X.YOURNAME and appear on green?

On EE CM, we have our own init for bots: "botinit". By sending it instead of "init", we get the X. prefix at our usernames. It reduces spam limit and disables the anti-cheat system for us. That's the same for EE2. They added a bot init and bot developers used it.

SirJosh3917 · 2016-12-08 05:15:44

rules wrote:

Also do not attempt to hack or interfere with the normal use of EE using external software ("bots") or using WPE.

*shrugs*
I guess???

Koya · 2016-12-08 08:57:27

Written in reference to http://i.imgur.com/aQ5U3bm.png

I said the ban reason was hacking because I wasn't talking about trolling...

Capasha, I can send you all the evidence which was used to ban you.

Can people PLEASE contact mods about their bans before posting it publicly with wrong information to make us/me look bad; if after being told the details and you still think there is something wrong then you can post publicly.

Trolling isn't innately against the rules, it can however be against the rules if using a bot to harass people - for instance joining, placing blocks and leaving - or using them in open worlds as everyone should be able to edit (this also includes protecting areas from editing).
Using EEditor to troll a "Code is 1111" world is not against the rules and would never have banned you for that, I wouldn't even kick you unless a world owner has said that I can kick trolls.

xJeex, MartenM

Saint-14 · 2016-12-08 10:59:37

Personally, that's a ridiculous ban reason. You shouldn't be banned for Everybody Edits Culture, and trolling is part of its culture.

2b55b5g · 2016-12-08 12:22:07

ok...

capasha · 2016-12-08 13:28:26

So I guess I "hacked" if this is about that "it can however be against the rules if using a bot to harass people - for instance joining,placing blocks and leaving"
Then everyone that is doing the same method without using bots, joins + troll + leave should be banned if this is harassing people.

Anyway I have used some other tools too. So I accept this ban.

hummerz5 · 2016-12-08 15:04:38

So it seems this thread has become a "why was I banned" thread except without the "why"

Recap:

Originally this seemed to have some discussion value on defining what the rules are in particular situations. Since then, this has become a more cut-and-dry example of "I was banned unfairly." So, the traditional response is (of course) please PM a staff member, don't make a topic.

Thanks; locking.

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#1 2016-12-07 20:14:14, last edited by hummerz5 (2016-12-08 14:55:04)

Trolling = Hacking?

#2 2016-12-07 20:21:46, last edited by hummerz5 (2016-12-08 14:52:54)

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#3 2016-12-07 20:45:36

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#4 2016-12-07 20:48:04

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#5 2016-12-07 20:51:16

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#6 2016-12-07 21:00:25

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#7 2016-12-07 21:12:57

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#8 2016-12-07 21:15:40, last edited by capasha (2016-12-07 21:17:06)

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#9 2016-12-07 22:20:26

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#10 2016-12-07 22:32:48

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#11 2016-12-07 22:38:28

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#12 2016-12-07 22:55:35

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#13 2016-12-07 22:56:19

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#14 2016-12-07 23:00:25

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#15 2016-12-07 23:00:51

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#16 2016-12-08 05:15:44

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#17 2016-12-08 08:57:27, last edited by Koya (2016-12-08 14:59:50)

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

I said the ban reason was hacking because I wasn't talking about trolling...

#18 2016-12-08 10:59:37, last edited by Saint-14 (2016-12-08 11:02:29)

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#19 2016-12-08 12:22:07

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#20 2016-12-08 13:28:26

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

#21 2016-12-08 15:04:38

Re: Trolling = Hacking?

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