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#1 2017-03-03 03:28:12, last edited by Murph (2017-03-26 07:03:17)

Murph
Banned

Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

So, I'm sure you're all aware there are hackers going through the campaigns claiming to finish them, but obviously only a handful of users that beat them  (I know first hand account that most noobs could never beat PF / FF / LCD).
Now, here's a guy that came into the world as I was midway through it. Curious, I spectated him to see if it was just a bot to check if I was hacking (which I don't do, n'or do I have the skills/knowledge to do so), but in fact, it was the opposite. I caught the guy red handed, and he later admitted saying, quote "ofc i could play propely but that would take a lot of time" AND "yeah i do cheat so what? i dont care cuz ive alredy done this before without any cheat".
Username; Koxii

Edit 1 (03/02/2017); These are the people that completely ruin the game, and make me want to quit. [I've been here since '11]

Edit 2 (03/03/2017); Maybe the solution is no campaigns at all, and go back to how it was? I mean, when I was a noob, I always looked up to some users not because they had a "rare", hard-to-get badge (which weren't around back then), but because they regularly demonstrated that they could do "pro" minis. What do you think?

Pkkvsq1.png

Cheers guys.
Murph //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/cool

#2 2017-03-03 03:49:56, last edited by hummerz5 (2017-03-03 03:51:06)

hummerz5
Member
From: wait I'm not a secret mod huh
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 5,852

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

well I locked the thread per "don't make a thread to ban someone" but I suppose not.

if there's any merit to this discussion, it's "what do we do about hackers"

apparently /reportabuse isn't to be used in regard to hacking

but there's no credibility to this post so be general, I suppose.

thanks kirby, n1kf,

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#3 2017-03-03 04:26:16, last edited by Abelysk (2017-03-03 04:26:40)

Abelysk
Guest

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

Find the source of the cheats and squash it

Cough krock

#4 2017-03-03 10:06:10

Tomahawk
Forum Mod
From: UK
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 2,824

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

It's a shame that /report only provides a short chat log. A better report system might also record the player's movements, to be played back later and reviewed.

EE could do plenty of cool stuff if it had more DB space.


One bot to rule them all, one bot to find them. One bot to bring them all... and with this cliché blind them.

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#5 2017-03-03 12:19:35

Jedpogi
Member
From: there
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 524

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

his net drops so hard that he can drop through blocks


叄咶吹吱吅厬匷匕勹动凸刲刳刎凸制冹匸勋像償亡丸乮伶睻豖豔財貜谷谧谕鷙鶂鶢鷑袂蠲蠿勋像償亡丸乮伶睻豖豔㰹㲐㱯㳫㲎財貜吅厬匷匕勹动凸刲刳刎凸衢袶蜽蝽蝇螷虜蘢葖萜蓀蒱臯臼俠俟俘䶳两买予丵乂争䳮䴻䳻䵍䵏䵴丹义䶘乸亖乵么乯圞圝圜圛圚圙團圗圖圕圔圓園亠亞亹亸伏伦冁儿兾冃冫冷冷冥冧凕勓勦劔礞䮼㼿㽗㼟㽵㼼㽹㽴㻻㶈㸁鐒鏔鏟鐷鹳鸟糱紘糹紖瘦癣癶瘱痿皜妍妋奋妘夲太圌四䯗彗垭䮘䰜幼幺螨枞奒㱯㰹㲐㱯㚻㚎㛷瘺皙皁阆阝閁髈薟蕚藃藯藎薒薝蕙薭蕴菲菏萠落萇菞菵萬䪺铭働䛒砯㩾癟䓪星卐卍厚印叄厉厕去叮厝匇匛匍勲区勨厉吪变厹吸吂厯厞䟬䞾侸㐀㐅㐻㓩㔗㕀㘛㖴㖕㗼㘣㘄㖵㘇㘯㘞㘟㖠㖍㱷㲷㱨㱃㲗㳓㲃㲺㳝㳨㳖㲅㱘㳀㳐㳖㳫㳫㔩㒽㒠㓯㓿㓀㒚㒭㓈㒚㓽㓷㔦㕂㙾㘧㚏㜶㛠㝋㛄㜬㛲㛜㜧㜆㚺㚡㜟㝞㞀㝏㞁㞬㞧㝤㝽㞺㞗㝄㜞㝖㝜㞃㞭㟕㟗㡉㟛㠚㠙㡩㠠㟜㠻㡵㣪㢓㣻㣀㢄㢩㣂㤂㥹㣹㥟㤹㤝㥚㥋㤹㥶㤧㤐䫒䫶䭊䫱䬊䪰涢涂涯浹淝淭笼竟筇讏謸讠讟譭讖譍謨謣豺谪豔豤谻豲豤豻豖谕谡豋賏貎貵貏豢賘賌貋跳趺跹踵踣赻趞跅趲踰踷軨躾軎軞軦軾軀躦躀躕軩躙躑辫转辤迏辘辄轴辜迖辦迏辚辭辶辴迉迭辯辻辁迬迧辫鄘郅邮郪郛邯部釐醡釄酷酣醢醥里酶釓釉野金鋁鉏銎鉖銓銼鋓銼鎥鏑鎗鏓鏉鎓鍕鍯鏗鏾鏤鎕鎫鎒鍭鎔鎪鎗鍺鎵鏓鐎鐡铗钖钄铕锓铮铐锍铼锞铡锒

02/04/2021: Sorry for being an unfunny piece of ****, no-good human trash. I hate my **** life.

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#6 2017-03-03 17:06:17, last edited by Master1 (2017-03-03 17:08:41)

Master1
Member
From: Crait
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 4,452

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

Of all the campaign maps to cheat on, why would you pick trolled minigames? lol

Tbh though, why does anyone care about hacking in campaigns? I could understand it if he was using a bot to spam keys and make the map unplayable, but if he's cheating just to finish it, why should anyone else care? He's only making the game boring for himself.



That being said:

hopperkk wrote:

Edit 1; These are the people that completely ruin the game, and make me want to quit. [I've been here since '11]

Could you please explain why you think he's ruining the game?


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#7 2017-03-03 17:59:40

N1KF
Wiki Mod
From: ဪဪဪဪဪ From: ဪဪဪဪဪ From: ဪဪဪဪဪ
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 11,055
Website

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

Master1 wrote:

Of all the campaign maps to cheat on, why would you pick trolled minigames? lol

Perhaps because it's a confusing mess that takes hours to figure out.

Tbh though, why does anyone care about hacking in campaigns? I could understand it if he was using a bot to spam keys and make the map unplayable, but if he's cheating just to finish it, why should anyone else care? He's only making the game boring for himself.

He's getting rewards he doesn't deserve. If you have badges and smileys you didn't earn, it's unfair for those who actually earned it. It puts a skilled player on the same level of a cheater, and that's no good!


Everybody Edits is Fred

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#8 2017-03-03 19:14:28

capasha
Member
Joined: 2015-02-21
Posts: 4,066

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

There is a way to detect only how many cheaters it's inside a world, if there are only 1 player in that world he would also be a cheater.
But I guess EE crew doesn't want to use this.

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#9 2017-03-03 19:30:56

XxAtillaxX
Member
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 4,202

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

This is what happens when you introduced non-sandbox features in what is supposed to be a sandbox game.
It's unavoidable, there's nothing you could possibly do to prevent cheating, including merely replaying packets.

I'm not going to support such a profoundly stupid idea, so stupid in fact, not even MrShoe considered it.


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#10 2017-03-03 20:00:47, last edited by Master1 (2017-03-03 20:03:36)

Master1
Member
From: Crait
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 4,452

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

N1KF wrote:
Master1 wrote:

Tbh though, why does anyone care about hacking in campaigns? I could understand it if he was using a bot to spam keys and make the map unplayable, but if he's cheating just to finish it, why should anyone else care? He's only making the game boring for himself.

He's getting rewards he doesn't deserve. If you have badges and smileys you didn't earn, it's unfair for those who actually earned it. It puts a skilled player on the same level of a cheater, and that's no good!

If someone cheats to get a prize, then it will be meaningless for them. The main purpose of a prize is the bragging rights. If there is nothing to brag about, then the prize is useless.
If someone actually beats a campaign, then they'll feel immensely rewarded when they receive their smiley/badge.

I don't see whats unfair about this. The person who did it legit is able to feel the worth in their prize. Everytime they see it, they will be reminded of all the hard work and effort they put in to acquire it. The person who didn't, will always have that low feeling inside them of not actually accomplishing anything. They'll only be reminded of how they cheated their way through.

Imo, having something amazing that you didn't truly earn can be worse than not having it at all.


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#11 2017-03-03 20:12:54

Norwee
Formerly NorwegianboyEE
From: Norway
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 3,772

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

N1KF wrote:

He's getting rewards he doesn't deserve. If you have badges and smileys you didn't earn, it's unfair for those who actually earned it. It puts a skilled player on the same level of a cheater, and that's no good!

It's ok. The real winners are those who do not have the badge for those horrendous campaigns. They are the ones who should be proud.


★              ☆        ★        ☆         ★
   ☆    ★                     ★

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#12 2017-03-03 20:20:03

Kirby
Member
Joined: 2015-04-04
Posts: 4,304

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

Master1 wrote:
N1KF wrote:
Master1 wrote:

Tbh though, why does anyone care about hacking in campaigns? I could understand it if he was using a bot to spam keys and make the map unplayable, but if he's cheating just to finish it, why should anyone else care? He's only making the game boring for himself.

He's getting rewards he doesn't deserve. If you have badges and smileys you didn't earn, it's unfair for those who actually earned it. It puts a skilled player on the same level of a cheater, and that's no good!

If someone cheats to get a prize, then it will be meaningless for them. The main purpose of a prize is the bragging rights. If there is nothing to brag about, then the prize is useless.
If someone actually beats a campaign, then they'll feel immensely rewarded when they receive their smiley/badge.

I don't see whats unfair about this. The person who did it legit is able to feel the worth in their prize. Everytime they see it, they will be reminded of all the hard work and effort they put in to acquire it. The person who didn't, will always have that low feeling inside them of not actually accomplishing anything. They'll only be reminded of how they cheated their way through.

Imo, having something amazing that you didn't truly earn can be worse than not having it at all.

what about gems then

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#13 2017-03-04 00:09:57

Murph
Banned

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

XxAtillaxX wrote:

This is what happens when you introduced non-sandbox features in what is supposed to be a sandbox game.
It's unavoidable, there's nothing you could possibly do to prevent cheating, including merely replaying packets.

I'm not going to support such a profoundly stupid idea, so stupid in fact, not even MrShoe considered it.

What would your solution be, then? No campaigns at all? I'd be fine with that as long as there were other ways for new members to earn energy and/or gems. i.e. those surveys (legit ones that pay companies who use them)?

#14 2017-03-04 01:27:15

XxAtillaxX
Member
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 4,202

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

They don't need to contact you, and I'm very sure they are aware, as you may not be, that there's no way to prevent merely replaying packets.


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#15 2017-03-04 01:29:33

Murph
Banned

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

XxAtillaxX wrote:

They don't need to contact you, and I'm very sure they are aware, as you may not be, that there's no way to prevent merely replaying packets.

Sure, they don't NEED to contact me, however, if they feel it's beneficiary to the game that you eliminate cheaters/exploiters, I know the (a) solution.

#16 2017-03-04 01:33:17

hummerz5
Member
From: wait I'm not a secret mod huh
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 5,852

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

hi, I hope I'm not overstepping, but your latest topic was basically the precise reason I didn't put the kibosh on your original topic, so I merged it in

if you want to discuss it, this is a good spot.

also, as a forumer, I have doubts about your claims. Perhaps you should give some form of credibility to your claims. Also, you are just as capable of reaching the lead admins as I... so I mean yeah

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#17 2017-03-04 01:35:32, last edited by Murph (2017-03-04 01:39:31)

Murph
Banned

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

hummerz5 wrote:

hi, I hope I'm not overstepping, but your latest topic was basically the precise reason I didn't put the kibosh on your original topic, so I merged it in

if you want to discuss it, this is a good spot.

also, as a forumer, I have doubts about your claims. Perhaps you should give some form of credibility to your claims. Also, you are just as capable of reaching the lead admins as I... so I mean yeah

Cool, thanks!

Edit; I am e-mailing the admins as we speak. Cheers!

#18 2017-03-04 01:41:07

hummerz5
Member
From: wait I'm not a secret mod huh
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 5,852

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

XxAtillaxX wrote:

that there's no way to prevent merely replaying packets.

can we discuss that in particular

what if they recorded everybody's packets and looked for identical matches?

would we amend our theoretical loophole with slightly fudged values? Would it be possible to then (server-side) check for really-close instead of exact?

could we then amend the loophole to repeat certain segments to throw off the trail? (i.e., if two packets are really close to each other in data, then I suppose we could either skip the middle or repeat it to be more or less genuine)

just some thoughts

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#19 2017-03-04 01:53:38

XxAtillaxX
Member
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 4,202

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

hummerz5 wrote:
XxAtillaxX wrote:

that there's no way to prevent merely replaying packets.

can we discuss that in particular

what if they recorded everybody's packets and looked for identical matches?

would we amend our theoretical loophole with slightly fudged values? Would it be possible to then (server-side) check for really-close instead of exact?

could we then amend the loophole to repeat certain segments to throw off the trail? (i.e., if two packets are really close to each other in data, then I suppose we could either skip the middle or repeat it to be more or less genuine)

just some thoughts

If they were going the traditional route and storing as cryptographic hashes, you could easily modify a single value and throw off the hash completely.
If they were storing them as perceptual hashes, they'd have a more realistic chance, however you'd need to draw a threshold between similarity and that varies a lot.

It would be completely unrealistic to attempt prevention against replaying, as they could merely evade perceptual hashes by using a combination of sessions from complete and/or incomplete campaign runs.
It's also worth noting that they lack the storage capacity for every single packet that is sent, and they also lack the computational ability to compare an exponential amount of possible combinations between every session.


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#20 2017-03-04 01:56:43

hummerz5
Member
From: wait I'm not a secret mod huh
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 5,852

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

XxAtillaxX wrote:

It would be completely unrealistic to attempt prevention against replaying, as they could merely evade perceptual hashes by using a combination of sessions from complete and/or incomplete campaign runs.
It's also worth noting that they lack the storage capacity for every single packet that is sent, and they also lack the computational ability to compare an exponential amount of possible combinations between every session.

Yeah, I figured we'd run into something like that

but now that's out in the open I guess... more apparent, perhaps

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#21 2017-03-04 04:57:43

Master1
Member
From: Crait
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 4,452

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

Kirby wrote:
Master1 wrote:
N1KF wrote:
Master1 wrote:

Tbh though, why does anyone care about hacking in campaigns? I could understand it if he was using a bot to spam keys and make the map unplayable, but if he's cheating just to finish it, why should anyone else care? He's only making the game boring for himself.

He's getting rewards he doesn't deserve. If you have badges and smileys you didn't earn, it's unfair for those who actually earned it. It puts a skilled player on the same level of a cheater, and that's no good!

If someone cheats to get a prize, then it will be meaningless for them. The main purpose of a prize is the bragging rights. If there is nothing to brag about, then the prize is useless.
If someone actually beats a campaign, then they'll feel immensely rewarded when they receive their smiley/badge.

I don't see whats unfair about this. The person who did it legit is able to feel the worth in their prize. Everytime they see it, they will be reminded of all the hard work and effort they put in to acquire it. The person who didn't, will always have that low feeling inside them of not actually accomplishing anything. They'll only be reminded of how they cheated their way through.

Imo, having something amazing that you didn't truly earn can be worse than not having it at all.

what about gems then

There's probably only a max of like 130-150  gems that can be earned by campaigns at the moment. That's not gonna get you very far.


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#22 2017-03-04 06:48:19

Xfrogman43
Member
From: need to find a new home
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 4,174

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

Master1 wrote:

There's probably only a max of like 130-150  gems that can be earned by campaigns at the moment. That's not gonna get you very far.

With 130-150 they could ask for gem codes from their alts and get a lot more, unless the admins look at IP's and compare as to limit that from happening


zsbu6Xm.png thanks zoey aaaaaaaaaaaand thanks latif for the avatar

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#23 2017-03-04 14:35:09

capasha
Member
Joined: 2015-02-21
Posts: 4,066

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

Xfrogman43 wrote:
Master1 wrote:

There's probably only a max of like 130-150  gems that can be earned by campaigns at the moment. That's not gonna get you very far.

With 130-150 they could ask for gem codes from their alts and get a lot more, unless the admins look at IP's and compare as to limit that from happening

IP everywhere. Doesn't people know that some people have dynamic IP address which could lead to a ban for someone else.
IP bans are too easy to go around and such are other ways too. So this isn't a success thing at all.

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#24 2017-03-04 20:17:48, last edited by Xfrogman43 (2017-03-04 20:17:59)

Xfrogman43
Member
From: need to find a new home
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 4,174

Re: Possible campaign exploiter. [EDITED/UPDATED]

capasha wrote:
Xfrogman43 wrote:
Master1 wrote:

There's probably only a max of like 130-150  gems that can be earned by campaigns at the moment. That's not gonna get you very far.

With 130-150 they could ask for gem codes from their alts and get a lot more, unless the admins look at IP's and compare as to limit that from happening

IP everywhere. Doesn't people know that some people have dynamic IP address which could lead to a ban for someone else.
IP bans are too easy to go around and such are other ways too. So this isn't a success thing at all.

I wasn't saying IP ban for that reason, I was saying they could compare the IPs with the hacker and when they ask for gems they could ban that account.


zsbu6Xm.png thanks zoey aaaaaaaaaaaand thanks latif for the avatar

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